The official EDS and academy thread 2011/12

[WNRH]

This is a triple over the rags this season by the way, the U18s beat them, the U16s beat them, and now the EDS beat them. There are still reverse U18 and U16 fixtures to go, however. Yet we keep hearing from rags that a golden generation is coming through, what about our lot? We don't hype them up half as much but players like Suarez, Rekik, Razak, and Guidetti are exciting, and Guidetti is well ahead of the "new Van Nistlerooy" Will Keane who is the same age.

Will Keane is a year younger than Guidetti and is a bit more advanced at the same ages.

 

[LoveCity]

This is a triple over the rags this season by the way, the U18s beat them, the U16s beat them, and now the EDS beat them. There are still reverse U18 and U16 fixtures to go, however. Yet we keep hearing from rags that a golden generation is coming through, what about our lot? We don't hype them up half as much but players like Suarez, Rekik, Razak, and Guidetti are exciting, and Guidetti is well ahead of the "new Van Nistlerooy" Will Keane who is the same age.

Will Keane is a year younger than Guidetti and is a bit more advanced at the same ages.

8 months, wow - you're saying Keane is better than Guidetti was 8 months ago? Based on what exactly? Today's performance where he couldn't score against quite frankly a wank City EDS defence? Will he be scoring 14 goals in 14 games in an equivalent league to the Dutch in 8 months time? He has 8 goals in 12 games for them in the reserve league so far this season.

I don't understand your pessimistic viewpoint towards our kids to be honest, it's nothing personal but you always seem to have a negative attitude towards them, they're every bit as good as United's. They don't have anyone in their defence for example even remotely close to Rekik's level.

 

[WNRH]

This is a triple over the rags this season by the way, the U18s beat them, the U16s beat them, and now the EDS beat them. There are still reverse U18 and U16 fixtures to go, however. Yet we keep hearing from rags that a golden generation is coming through, what about our lot? We don't hype them up half as much but players like Suarez, Rekik, Razak, and Guidetti are exciting, and Guidetti is well ahead of the "new Van Nistlerooy" Will Keane who is the same age.

Will Keane is a year younger than Guidetti and is a bit more advanced at the same ages.

8 months, wow - you're saying Keane is better than Guidetti was 8 months ago? Based on what exactly? Today's performance where he couldn't score against quite frankly a wank City EDS defence? Will he be scoring 14 goals in 14 games in an equivalent league to the Dutch in 8 months time? He has 8 goals in 12 games for them in the reserve league so far this season.

I don't understand your pessimistic viewpoint towards our kids to be honest, it's nothing personal but you always seem to have a negative attitude towards them, they're every bit as good as United's.

Hang on a minute, my pessimistic views towards our kids? You couldn't be further away from the truth. I'm never pessimistic towards them, you may confuse that with being realistic.

I never said either that Keane was better than Guidetti 8 months ago, i am saying Keane is more advanced at that age. Keane has already been on a few benches and has made his Premier League debut. 8 months is a big difference at this age.

Our kids are not as good as United's. They are better this year and next year.

So just because i am not going OTT gaga on Suarez ect doesn't mean i'm pessimistic towards them. Infact go back through this thread and i will be one of the only ones who defended the kids after each Next Gen defeat.

 

[GStar]

They've got a much weaker squad than ours and have had more injuries... don't think its a case of him being more advanced.

 

[LoveCity]

I never said either that Keane was better than Guidetti 8 months ago, i am saying Keane is more advanced at that age. Keane has already been on a few benches and has made his Premier League debut. 8 months is a big difference at this age.

If we're speaking technicalities, Guidetti made his first team debut for City when he was younger than Keane is now, last season in the CC against West Brom when Guidetti was 18 years and 5 months old (Keane was 12 days shy of 19 when he made his United debut as a late sub against Blackburn). And if Guidetti had not been loaned out he'd be on our bench constantly of late and probably coming on when we've been desperate for goals or had games tied up, as we've been without a 3rd/4th striker (or attacking players, full stop) due to Tevez and injuries/suspensions.

Our kids are not as good as United's. They are better this year and next year.

This year and next year? Based on what?

Our U18s have almost literally double the amount of points their's do this season. Their esteemed reserve team just got knocked over by our never-together EDS today on their turf. Our U16s beat their U16s too (I can't find the league tables though), so where exactly is the proof of their superiority? Because of a few starlets like Pogba, Morrison, and Fryers, one of whom has moved on now (Morrison)?

So just because i am not going OTT gaga on Suarez ect doesn't mean i'm pessimistic towards them. Infact go back through this thread and i will be one of the only ones who defended the kids after each Next Gen defeat.

Fair enough but in the north at least, our academy/youths are just as good as United's, look at their batch of U18s this season - awful. 3rd from bottom on 18pts, City 2nd (and would be top if not for this "resting" bollocks of top players for EDS games) on 35pts. I'm not comparing us to Arsenal here but the rags youth system has been overrated for years, we've developed a better player (Richards) than anyone they have brought through since the "golden generation" almost two decades ago.

 

[WNRH]

If we're speaking technicalities, Guidetti made his first team debut for City when he was younger than Keane is now, last season in the CC against West Brom when Guidetti was 18 years and 5 months old (Keane was 12 days shy of 19 when he made his United debut as a late sub against Blackburn). And if Guidetti had not been loaned out he'd be on our bench constantly of late and probably coming on when we've been desperate for goals or had games tied up, as we've been without a 3rd/4th striker (or attacking players, full stop) due to Tevez and injuries/suspensions.

Guidetti was loaned out when we had 4 top class strikers, he would have been 4th striker if we only had 3 fit ones but then so would Keane for United.

This year and next year? Based on what?

Our U18s have almost literally double the amount of points their's do this season. Their esteemed reserve team just got knocked over by our never-together EDS today on their turf. Our U16s beat their U16s too (I can't find the league tables though), so where exactly is the proof of their superiority? Because of a few starlets like Pogba, Morrison, and Fryers, one of whom has moved on now (Morrison)?

Read it again, i'm talking about us you lemon! :D

Fair enough but in the north at least, our academy/youths are just as good as United's, look at their batch of U18s this season - awful. 3rd from bottom on 18pts, City 2nd (and would be top if not for this "resting" bollocks of top players for EDS games) on 35pts. I'm not comparing us to Arsenal here but the rags youth system has been overrated for years, we've developed a better player (Richards) than anyone they have brought through since the "golden generation" almost two decades ago.

I agree with all of that - and have done in this thread from the beginning - apart from the last point, if Micah Richards was 17/18 now he would never make it with us. He was very lucky that he came through at a time when we were skint and could afford a youngster 2-3 years to gain experience. United may not have produced top class players but they have produced alot of good lower end prem, championship players.

 

[LoveCity]

Guidetti was loaned out when we had 4 top class strikers, he would have been 4th striker if we only had 3 fit ones but then so would Keane for United.

That's been the case far too often this season thanks to Mad Mario and injury niggles for Aguero and Dzeko. I think Guidetti would have loads of appearances in all competitions by now, especially if he could show the form he is in Holland in the Premier League.

Read it again, i'm talking about us you lemon! :D

My mistake but the wording was strange. :P

The only thing I will give United over City is that they are more open to giving their best youth players consistent chances. Consistent I emphasize before someone else throws the list at me of kids given their debuts under Mancini, but that is a bit misleading as many of them were 88th minute appearances from someone never to be seen again.

I've found their youth setup for a long time now to be incredibly underwhelming considering the resources and reputation they have, they've produced nothing close to the Giggs/Scholes/Beckham/Nevilles generation and nothing close to the best that say Arsenal (Ashley Cole, Wilshere, Fabregas - and yeah I do count him as he was a mid-teen when he went there) have produced in recent times.

I agree with all of that - and have done in this thread from the beginning - apart from the last point, if Micah Richards was 17/18 now he would never make it with us.

But they are ifs and buts, we *have* developed Micah and given him his chance so I think the point (that he is a better footballer than anyone United have produced in the modern era) is valid. Only Darren Fletcher surely comes close, these two (Welbeck and Cleverley) are still more hype than substance.

If not for injuries I still think Michael Johnson could have gone on to become the next Gerrard/Lampard level English midfielder too. He was desperately unlucky and now his career at the top seems dead.

United may not have produced top class players but they have produced alot of good lower end prem, championship players.

We've produced a fair few as well, look at the QPR team. :P

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Will Keane ain't a patch on Guidetti or Bunn, even Hiwula(who I've been critical of, first time today he's impressed me) did as much if not more than Will, and if our defence had been remotely tight he wouldn't have got anywhere.

His brother, Michael, gave away the penalty and wasn't even the best defender at his school.

United were firmly 2nd best today and I'd be scared if I were a rag, we dominated the ball for long spells, looked the most threatening and by far and away played the best football. Really positive with Suarez, Rekik(star), Bunn, Roman and Assulin, who got a half today and really impressed me, he has plenty in his arsenal and with some work can be a good player imo.

The rest, some played decently, but all need moving on in the summer imho, not good enough and if they're not a regular U18(ie. older than that age group) then they need to go as the U18s should be the EDS and back in the reserve league next year.

Not sure if Welsh is the right man but Rigg, if he is as chief scout responsible for the lads we're bringing in to the academy then he's doing a great job.

 

[nehe11]

Did anyone download the match?

 

[Nelly's Left Foot]

Will Keane ain't a patch on Guidetti or Bunn, even Hiwula(who I've been critical of, first time today he's impressed me) did as much if not more than Will, and if our defence had been remotely tight he wouldn't have got anywhere.

His brother, Michael, gave away the penalty and wasn't even the best defender at his school.

United were firmly 2nd best today and I'd be scared if I were a rag, we dominated the ball for long spells, looked the most threatening and by far and away played the best football. Really positive with Suarez, Rekik(star), Bunn, Roman and Assulin, who got a half today and really impressed me, he has plenty in his arsenal and with some work can be a good player imo.

The rest, some played decently, but all need moving on in the summer imho, not good enough and if they're not a regular U18(ie. older than that age group) then they need to go as the U18s should be the EDS and back in the reserve league next year.

Not sure if Welsh is the right man but Rigg, if he is as chief scout responsible for the lads we're bringing in to the academy then he's doing a great job.

Rigg is Technical Director I think and within his role I believe he is repsonsible for our scouting network worldwide. I would say he is doing a fine job.