The Political Correlation Between the US and UK...

[Ancient Citizen]

Anthopologist amd archeologist have concluded that the human race began as pure socialist (egalitarian) groups that only changed awhen agricultural advancement meant larger communities, which has long been recognised that when a population grows in a group to a larger size will become.less social and more hierarchy/class based.
Once land ownership and division from a shared labour and co-operative groups to an owner/worker worker relationship happened societies changed.
Also sparta did ok and that is considered to have been a society that used an early form of socialism and egalitarianism.

A socialist state hasn't really ever existed no matter what a government calls itself, socialist communities however do exist and have thrived.

Until the human race learns to not obsess about possesing things, and having ownership over land and resources and learns to share the earth equally with itself, for the bettterment of the planet and it's inhabitants socialism won't happen,

Sparta? The Spartans basically enslaved the surrounding population, (called Helots) and exploited their labour.
This enabled them to concentrate on becoming a militaristic power, still admired, but not egalitarian, more like
military dictatorship for the sole benefit of its own citizens.
Also, I'm not aware of any successful socialist countries, but you may enlighten, fair enough, but other than some barely
functioning, but possibly happy, Hippy communes, I can't place any.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

What Americans think of as Socialism is British Liberalism! The hardest part of having these discussions is that American politics is so right of center that any discussion of socialism makes Americans IMMEDIATELY mention Venezuela.

Take an American, say “Socialism” and watch them reflexively salivate and start twitching.

And, it’s a joke to even mention the name Tucker Carlson and ANYTHING related to reasonable political discussion, because they are incongruent.

Yes, I would agree with this, Americans are notoriously insular when anything like this is discussed.
However, socialism is what it is, a nice idea but totally unworkable, if some Americans want their problems solving,
turning to this philosophy won't solve them.

 

[urban genie]

Sparta? The Spartans basically enslaved the surrounding population, (called Helots) and exploited their labour.
This enabled them to concentrate on becoming a militaristic power, still admired, but not egalitarian, more like
military dictatorship for the sole benefit of its own citizens.
Also, I'm not aware of any successful socialist countries, but you may enlighten, fair enough, but other than some barely
functioning, but possibly happy, Hippy communes, I can't place any.

Glad that was all you picked up from my post which said some consider sparta a fornm of socialism because of it's egalitarian set up in spartian society what it did on it's miltary campaigns and towards those it attacked is a totally different thing.
I also cleary said socialism has existed in small groups and communities, but when comminities have expanded it hasn't sustained, add tgat I said no fully socialist has ever existed, so asking for proof of one is clearly ignoring my posts credible points.
The myopia on this sub forum is still strong I see on all political fronts

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Very interesting, but turning to pure socialism will make their lives a thousand times worse because it hasn't
worked, and doesn't work.
Anywhere.

Finland , Norway, Sweden & Denmark are all failed states then ? I think you're confusing Democratic Socialism with Communism (do you do it deliberately?)

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Glad that was all you picked up from my post which said some consider sparta a fornm of socialism because of it's egalitarian set up in spartian society what it did on it's miltary campaigns and towards those it attacked is a totally different thing.
I also cleary said socialism has existed in small groups and communities, but when comminities have expanded it hasn't sustained, add tgat I said no fully socialist has ever existed, so asking for proof of one is clearly ignoring my posts credible points.
The myopia on this sub forum is still strong I see on all political fronts

No myopia intended, and my apologies if that's how it was perceived. I took issue with citing Sparta as implementing
a form of socialism, if enslaving surrounding populations to distribute the product of their labour amongst its own people,
is a form of socialism, then Nazi Germany's National socialism was exactly the same thing. If this abhorrent philosophy had succeeded,
then maybe some form of perverse 'Success' could be attached to it.
I'd be interested to hear what communities implemented socialism, with a benign system resulting, I know of none.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Finland , Norway, Sweden & Denmark are all failed states then ? I think you're confusing Democratic Socialism with Communism (do you do it deliberately?)

The countries you list are not socialist. It's a mistake commonly made by those who claim socialism works,
You are confusing the terminology to describe certain political parties outlooks with the actual thing.
The discussion is about socialism, not other philosophies.

 

[Bigga]

Very interesting, but turning to pure socialism will make their lives a thousand times worse because it hasn't
worked, and doesn't work.
Anywhere.

As long as I've been alive "socialism" has been a negative word making everyone commonly poorer, except the state.

So, being a 'democratic socialist' has its problems with the connective 'association' and nobody seems to want to see past the word 'socialist/m'.

This is merely wanting a fairer society and a betterment of it citizens for the greater good, in layman's terms.

DS don't want to stop capitalism. DS wants to uplift society. That is all.

We have to STOP being brainwashed as a people over the 'dirty word'.

Anthopologist amd archeologist have concluded that the human race began as pure socialist (egalitarian) groups that only changed awhen agricultural advancement meant larger communities, which has long been recognised that when a population grows in a group to a larger size will become.less social and more hierarchy/class based.
Once land ownership and division from a shared labour and co-operative groups to an owner/worker worker relationship happened societies changed.
Also sparta did ok and that is considered to have been a society that used an early form of socialism and egalitarianism.

A socialist state hasn't really ever existed no matter what a government calls itself, socialist communities however do exist and have thrived.

Until the human race learns to not obsess about possesing things, and having ownership over land and resources and learns to share the earth equally with itself, for the bettterment of the planet and it's inhabitants socialism won't happen,

Excellent post.

I feel like the Thatcher era really fooked the world over in many regards.

Now we're coming full cycle as a Western world that needs to look at how to move society forward.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

The countries you list are not socialist. It's a mistake commonly made by those who claim socialism works,
You are confusing the terminology to describe certain political parties outlooks with the actual thing.
The discussion is about socialism, not other philosophies.

Ahem...https://www.quora.com/In-what-country-has-democratic-socialism-been-successful

 

[oldtimerdiscopants]

Sparta? The Spartans basically enslaved the surrounding population, (called Helots) and exploited their labour.
This enabled them to concentrate on becoming a militaristic power, still admired, but not egalitarian, more like
military dictatorship for the sole benefit of its own citizens.
Also, I'm not aware of any successful socialist countries, but you may enlighten, fair enough, but other than some barely
functioning, but possibly happy, Hippy communes, I can't place any.

I don't call lobbing babies off cliffs functional mate :)

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Ahem...https://www.quora.com/In-what-country-has-democratic-socialism-been-successful

You have deflected the discussion about socialism towards another political system, as expected, as I have requested,
please give us a list of successful socialist countries.
The now defunct SDP, (social democratic party) had policies akin to both Labour and conservative, in no way was it
socialist, but the label attached to it infers some form of it. Now some form of socialism is acceptable, we have some of its
tenets now, with welfare, health care etc; (please, no rants about how crap it is), but these are simply party labels,
as I've been repeating ad nauseum pure Socialism has never, and will never work.