The price of football and falling attendances

[davymcfc]

How else can clubs (apart from us) afford to pay big salaries and transfer fees?

 

[Deleted member 52846]

Atmospheres have got worse because the historical working class lad has been priced out of many grounds and been replaced with older blokes, women and kids of the upper working class/middle class demographic. The stupid Taylor report ruined the way in which football is watched by enforcing people to sit down in seats many people don't want to sit in. The growth of season tickets means that you can't just turn up and stand with twenty of your mates. Stewarding is far too strict and people are thrown out for literally fuck all. Clubs, police forces and the councils are completely against fan participation and just want fans to be spectators.

Going to the football in England is only a few steps down the ladder from a trip to the opera or ballet.

The expense of it is an absolute joke. Season on season away followings get lower and lower across the board. Last season only Everton and Spurs brought over 2800 to the Etihad. Most brought about 1500. Many people can't simply justify spending £100+ on anything anymore. But all clubs are arsed about is the money. They just want to milk as much money out he middle class spectators as possible.

Whereas in Germany clubs understand that all fans are as much part of the club as the players and manager. They are looked after provided with proper standing and singing areas that aren't just 5000 seas stuck in a corner of the ground like in England. But the centre piece of the stadium. Proper flags and banners are encouraged too. Tickets are realistic in price and transport is included.

The Bundesliga is the fastest growing league in the world and I reckon within a decade it will be the best and biggest. The way they look after fans is only one reason why but its one thing that English clubs do not do.

When Arsenal put their ticket prices up to stupid levels, everyone in the country should have protested because long term it effects every single club. But if anyone had suggested doing that there would be 91 sets of fans telling them to fuck off. In Germany clubs dared to raise tickets to about £30 and fans protested in their hundreds of thousands. This is one of the big things of what Ultras are all about and we don't have them in England neither (apart from the odd club).

Clubs and fans in this country have got a lot to learn of what modern football is all about.

-- Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:29 pm --

Firstly I doubt you would get 2 people in the place of one seated spectator. Secondly as has been pointed out the demographic of the football fan has changed. More families, people with higher disposable income. Rightly or wrongly this has led to incresed attendances, higher spending within the ground, higher tv revenues due to its marketability etc etc.

Clubs are not going to spend fortunes on reconfiguring the ground on the gamble of safe standing attracting fans, potential return of hooliganism due to lack of crowd control within stadia.

Exactly how would there be a lack of crowd control within a stadium with Safe Standing?

Tickets are booked via season tickets, credit cards and so if an inciodent occurs in the ground it is much easier to identify the perpetrator as most people sit in the seat linked to their ticket. Within a standing area there is a large volume of transient fans, with no information who is located where making the identification of the individual more difficult.

Anyway Im playing devils advocate here on the opinion of the clubs. I would love to return to standing but club chairmen are going to look at ticket prices now, level of attendances and think why alter a winning formula to return to standing when attendances were much smaller when standing was available.

With Safe Standing (it's nothing like the old standing terraces) you are allocated a seat or standing area just like we are now with but with a bar in front of you to lean on.

 

[gmillard]

Hi all,

Just wanted to bring this one back to the top. I'm writing an article on the subject (I know, who isn't) and I just wanted to get your thoughts. I'm not a journalist but I am in the middle of a journalism course and this would really help me out, so thanks in advance.

I'm a Bradford fan (don't laugh), and while our drop down the leagues has been painful to say the least, the one positive is that we now have 2 chairmen who love the club and a ground that's too big for us, which, amongst other things, means cheap season tickets. If it wasn't for this I wouldn't be watching my club anymore (which might not have been a bad thing in fairness).

I know some of this has been covered but what I really want to know is how many of you were regulars, say, 15 years ago and simply can't afford to do it anymore? Are there some of you that realistically can't afford to keep attending but can't drag yourself away, and why is that? I'm on a pretty modest salary and if Bradford were still in the Premier League i'm pretty sure I'd be watching from the sofa by now. Having said that, in fairness, your ticket prices are some of the best in the league, especially considering that you are the Champions. But it still doesn't make it cheap, and if you've got kids,and simply can't afford to take them, they are the next generation that may be lost to football.

As brilliant as the investment in your club has been and the trophies that it has brought, do you get the sense that the club is more and more detached from it's fanbase? The great thing about Bradford, and there aren't many, is that fans do still have some sort of influence on the decisions at the club, is that the case at City?

It's pretty clear that the inflated salaries and transfer fees for players has driven an increase in ticket prices, which in turn was driven by an increase in TV deals, but surely season ticket sales are a drop in the ocean for Premier League sides with wealthy backers these days. Corporate partnerships, sponsors and those TV deals are the main income generators, so why can't these ever growing income streams subsidise a reduction in ticket prices?

Personally I think we've gone way past the point where fan power can drive down ticket prices, the time for that was a good few years ago IMO, anyone think differently?

 

[gh_mcfc]

Hi all,

Just wanted to bring this one back to the top. I'm writing an article on the subject (I know, who isn't) and I just wanted to get your thoughts. I'm not a journalist but I am in the middle of a journalism course and this would really help me out, so thanks in advance.

I'm a Bradford fan (don't laugh), and while our drop down the leagues has been painful to say the least, the one positive is that we now have 2 chairmen who love the club and a ground that's too big for us, which, amongst other things, means cheap season tickets. If it wasn't for this I wouldn't be watching my club anymore (which might not have been a bad thing in fairness).

I know some of this has been covered but what I really want to know is how many of you were regulars, say, 15 years ago and simply can't afford to do it anymore? Are there some of you that realistically can't afford to keep attending but can't drag yourself away, and why is that? I'm on a pretty modest salary and if Bradford were still in the Premier League i'm pretty sure I'd be watching from the sofa by now. Having said that, in fairness, your ticket prices are some of the best in the league, especially considering that you are the Champions. But it still doesn't make it cheap, and if you've got kids,and simply can't afford to take them, they are the next generation that may be lost to football.

As brilliant as the investment in your club has been and the trophies that it has brought, do you get the sense that the club is more and more detached from it's fanbase? The great thing about Bradford, and there aren't many, is that fans do still have some sort of influence on the decisions at the club, is that the case at City?

It's pretty clear that the inflated salaries and transfer fees for players has driven an increase in ticket prices, which in turn was driven by an increase in TV deals, but surely season ticket sales are a drop in the ocean for Premier League sides with wealthy backers these days. Corporate partnerships, sponsors and those TV deals are the main income generators, so why can't these ever growing income streams subsidise a reduction in ticket prices?

Personally I think we've gone way past the point where fan power can drive down ticket prices, the time for that was a good few years ago IMO, anyone think differently?

As you say ticket sales are a drop in the ocean compare to other revenue streams but due to the ridiculous FFP rules every penny coming in counts .... turnover rules. I am convinced we would have cheaper tickets were it not for FFP.

Problem is every club in the league will soon have to deal with this and its the Fans who bear the brunt. Its okay for clubs like arsenal, chelsea and spurs to bang on about FFP when they can charge 3 times more and have 10 times more day tripping potential due to an accident of location. Ticket prices in the North generally haven`t been too harsh and I think club owner know their fan bases aren`t the wealthiest however things may be about to change.

 

[gmillard]

As you say ticket sales are a drop in the ocean compare to other revenue streams but due to the ridiculous FFP rules every penny coming in counts .... turnover rules. I am convinced we would have cheaper tickets were it not for FFP.

Problem is every club in the league will soon have to deal with this and its the Fans who bear the brunt. Its okay for clubs like arsenal, chelsea and spurs to bang on about FFP when they can charge 3 times more and have 10 times more day tripping potential due to an accident of location. Ticket prices in the North generally haven`t been too harsh and I think club owner know their fan bases aren`t the wealthiest however things may be about to change.

Great shout actually and not something I'd considered. Fans are being taken for granted these days, but the problem is, for every one that has to stay away, there will always be someone willing to take their place, especially given a bit of success.

 

[mancitytmdanttom]

We have sold out near enough every game for the last 2/3 seasons.

Our average attendence is 46/47 depending on how many away fans turn up.

Go back over our history and there wont be many higher average attendances than what we have now.

That being said away games are ridiculous. West brom cost over a £100 for me, for the ticket, train and a few beers.

Stoke was nearly as much. The sooner they re-introduce standing and drop the prices the better.

Thats the point crowds are at there highest, ticket prices are excessive. Why would the stadium be changed to accomodate safe standing and lose the £40 seat money. Hence there is no desire by the clubs to introduce this. If crowds collapse there maybe interest from clubs chairmen. But currently there is little desire for this.

Doesn't the seat take up 2 people standing - so drop the price to say £25 to Stand - The club would still be making £10 Extra per say an extra 10,000 fans

 

[gh_mcfc]

there will always be someone willing to take their place, especially given a bit of success.

Thats the point though. In some areas of the country especially London this will be the case. Elsewhere it wont be.

Away attendances are dropping off everywhere due to ticket prices. If you have a season ticket you tend not to notice costs for 1 of home games especially as many cup games are reduced.

Those without STs pick and choose game and go a lot less frequently in my experience.

 

[Originals]

For me, prices right through the football league are wrong. Lower league sides are charging £20 (just checked 1 side - Oldham) until the teams in the lower divisions change what they charge it'll never change. I bet you could get to some premierleague games for about £20 for the lesser games

 

[gmillard]

For me, prices right through the football league are wrong. Lower league sides are charging £20 (just checked 1 side - Oldham) until the teams in the lower divisions change what they charge it'll never change. I bet you could get to some premierleague games for about £20 for the lesser games

I think lower league clubs rely on matchday income more than most. Mainly down to the increase in salaries filtering down to the lower divisions.

At Bradford, our matchday prices are £20, which is too much. But ST prices are £199 for 23 games.

 

[mancitytmdanttom]

there will always be someone willing to take their place, especially given a bit of success.

Thats the point though. In some areas of the country especially London this will be the case. Elsewhere it wont be.

Away attendances are dropping off everywhere due to ticket prices. If you have a season ticket you tend not to notice costs for 1 of home games especially as many cup games are reduced.

Those without STs pick and choose game and go a lot less frequently in my experience.

That's where you're wrong - I'm a season ticket holder (Have been since we moved in the new stadium) and I go to as many away games as possible (Only missed 1 this season so far and only missed 4 last season) - And have not missed a home game since 2003