The Real (Secret) Political and Economic War Being Waged Today

[Palerider]

You have mentioned Brexit in a negative light but how can this be mentioned in the context of this thread when the only reality of reversing Brexit is handing more power to the European globalist political class? You're attacking the transfer of power to the wealthy elite whilst missing the fact that the EU is a political amalgamation which does just that. Does the EU really represent and work to better the lives of working class European people? Really...?

In the context of this thread alone, Brexit was actually the least worst option, it was an expression of democratic power which returns some power to the UK and it's hard to argue against that. More people voted for Brexit in a yes/no question than have voted for anything else in British political history. No government for example has ever been elected on those numbers.

What you said (underlined) is key for me because Brexit, remain, Labour, Tory, Trump, Biden... They're all the same thing and the ideas behind them are all backed by the same people. If anyone thinks we can vote differently and get something different then you haven't been listening.

It's still a fact that most people on here don't want an authoritarian Tory government but deep down they'd certainly have an authoritarian left-wing government. That's actually what folk are arguing for, they're identifying the wealthy elite with the right but the fact is the wealthy elite survive by functioning independently of politics. Those people knock on the door of Number 10 and it doesn't matter who opens the door.

The only way we'll ever see true democracy is if we smash the system apart and replace it however this would require the main parties to vote to destroy themselves, they'd lose their funding and their wealthy backers would lose their lobbying power.... Suffice to say, when do you think these parties or influential people will propose this change?

Now that is a very good post, looking at the overall picture with a rare clarity. Impressed.
For me, I think the biggest problem is the lack of long term planning which is due to the fact that unless you are a crowd pleasing government then you are out of a job pretty quick! PR would help enormously in that regard but as you say that means MPs voting against themselves.

 

[NPBlue]

I’m not American, I am from Manchester (and Spain). I just currently live in the US. So you don’t need to explain the situation.

And, again, you are focusing on elections and a representative government that functions appropriately, and I am trying to warn of the ways elements of the wealthy elite have been and continue to create frameworks and mechanisms to circumvent it as necessary, namely through capturing the court systems and degrading/corrupting public institutions, which can enable them to effectively override the will of the majority as necessary. It is all laid out in various writings and statements from the various Koch-backed organisations and like-minded entities both here and there, and especially in MacLean’s research. Brexit was a facet of the scheme, as was the seemingly moronic actions of Kwarteng, which proceeded Sunak’s current gutting projects.

As I said in my original post, the scheme is party-agnostic. It won’t matter who wins the election if they succeed.

I think the Labour perty have to wise up to the increasaing disenchantment many people are feeling now regarding brexit, especially in the red wall seats.

I agree wholeheatedly there is primarily a right wing media bias in the UK, reinforced by focus groups based in Tufton Street, but their ideals of a small state low tax economy took a hell of a battering after a couple of their fully paid up members, namely Lizz Truss and Kwasi Kwarting, unleashed their ruinous budget on us.

It was funny, in a way, their jouvenile decisions being received so warmly by the press. It was hailed as a true tory budget, and a masterstroke of genious from the Chancellor.

Their free thinking ideas that markets are the only way forward, which is the mantra of the Tufton Street brigade, wasn't warmly received in the rest of the world that calmly looked at us and thought 'What are you doing?' The world reacted in a way their narrow minded nonsense wasn't expecting, and they have no recollection of the destruction similar ideals had on the world in 1929 before a bloke called Keynes wrote a book or three.

I'm not happy they are screwing everything up, and it feels like a firestorm of destruction at the moment, a bit like a scorched earth policy. I'm convinced they are making a bad situation even worse, hoping their ruinous policies will make the usual result of their bad policy decisions being rectified by a Labour government after they have been forced out of government a forlorn hope, and that's where my anger lies at the moment.

They couldn't give a stuff about the ordinary person, being in power means more than everything their repressive decisions have made on the lives of working people, and it's always been the same with them.

Fortunately, there are a couple of generations that destast them, generation X and Millenials, which will never vote for them, and it gives me hope that common sense will prevail and a fairer, more equitable socirty will arise from the ashes of the most incompetent and devisive government in our history.

It's not all bad news.

 

[Rascal]

There are so many strands to this thread I could write a Doctorate thesis on it of I had 2 years :))

At last people are actually talking about what is happening in the way I have tried to frame it for many years now. It is class war, but not in the traditional sense of the statement where the lower classes took on the upper classes. This is different, its the Upper class waging war on the lower class and using culture as a dividing tool. Endless stories about people in dinghies are designed to split the working class and make it less if a threat, woke, gender, race etc are all designed to inflame working class division. If my neighbour was a politically aware, Transexual from Eritrea I would certainly have far more in common with them as I do with the likes of Rees Mogg.

Inbetween makes some great points about Brexit, it is a Capitalist club that serves the corporate interest before the interest of the working class. I suppose he is also right about me especially in being happy with an authoritarian left wing government, i am certainly no Liberal. Brexit I believe was a working class call for a bigger state, not a Singapore on Thames style state envisaged by the nutcases in the ERG. The working class had seen its traditional industries decimated by neo liberalism, the services that people relied on cut to the bone, the NHS in crisis after crisis and wanted a reverse to what we had before the rise of the Chicago and Austrian schools of economics lead us down the path first trodden by Thatcher. The works of Hayek and Friedmann plus others became fashionable pushed by the the likes of the Tufton Street thanks, yes and funded by shady money from the likes of the Koch's and the Barclays. These people railed against the post WW2 social consensus which actually redistributed wealth from the rich to the poor and the rich didnt like that. It had to address the situation and now they are getting greedy because they can not believe how easy it was to wage class war on the working class.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

What evidence is there that was even a semi-coherent movement amongst a majority of leave voters for a bigger state?

 

[inbetween]

There are so many strands to this thread I could write a Doctorate thesis on it of I had 2 years :))

At last people are actually talking about what is happening in the way I have tried to frame it for many years now. It is class war, but not in the traditional sense of the statement where the lower classes took on the upper classes. This is different, its the Upper class waging war on the lower class and using culture as a dividing tool. Endless stories about people in dinghies are designed to split the working class and make it less if a threat, woke, gender, race etc are all designed to inflame working class division. If my neighbour was a politically aware, Transexual from Eritrea I would certainly have far more in common with them as I do with the likes of Rees Mogg.

Inbetween makes some great points about Brexit, it is a Capitalist club that serves the corporate interest before the interest of the working class. I suppose he is also right about me especially in being happy with an authoritarian left wing government, i am certainly no Liberal. Brexit I believe was a working class call for a bigger state, not a Singapore on Thames style state envisaged by the nutcases in the ERG. The working class had seen its traditional industries decimated by neo liberalism, the services that people relied on cut to the bone, the NHS in crisis after crisis and wanted a reverse to what we had before the rise of the Chicago and Austrian schools of economics lead us down the path first trodden by Thatcher. The works of Hayek and Friedmann plus others became fashionable pushed by the the likes of the Tufton Street thanks, yes and funded by shady money from the likes of the Koch's and the Barclays. These people railed against the post WW2 social consensus which actually redistributed wealth from the rich to the poor and the rich didnt like that. It had to address the situation and now they are getting greedy because they can not believe how easy it was to wage class war on the working class.

I have to say Rascal you know I'm no socialist but you're 100% correct.

Did the folk of Sunderland vote for Brexit to make us into a tax haven 30 miles off France? Brexit was really a lashing out at the frustrations of globalisation and a system which just does not serve them. I doubt any of these people had any clue about what Brexit could mean but they probably didn't care. The mistake these people made is they chose the Tories to represent them but then again what choice did they have given the conflict within Labour on Brexit?

These systems do not serve them in the UK nor do they serve them in the EU so either way it was always going to be the least worst option. The remain campaign gloom was dominated by economics but when you can't get a job or can't afford food then do you really care about % changes in GDP causing the rich to not get richer or what about foreign investment banks moving to Frankfurt?

The divide and conquer approach to Brexit is especially ironic given this was such a huge vote and it required a popular mandate. Unfortunately the main argument put forward by remain is still that poor people were too thick to be trusted with the vote, they were also too thick to see the lies and they're also idiots for voting for the only party that said they'd see Brexit through.

I personally voted for remain because I thought the economics required preserving but I can completely understand why some voted the opposite. The system ultimately hasn't changed though and the Tories have done what the Tories usually do. Many of these people will therefore take out their renewed frustrations on the Tories next and this will cause a huge swing to Labour and the remaining politically homeless will go to Reform.

In any event in 5 years time we'll still be in the same position. The rich will be richer and the poor will stay poor. The Tories will promise populist type stuff and they'll get in again. The critics will then say the same thing, why do these poor idiots keep voting in Tory governments?

 

[HelloCity]

Yeah right, regardless of your political affinity! That could be lifted directly from the Guardian or CNN - neither could be described as 'fair, even handed reporters of world events'....as bad as the Mail and Fox News.

No wonder we're fucked.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

I have to say Rascal you know I'm no socialist but you're 100% correct.

Did the folk of Sunderland vote for Brexit to make us into a tax haven 30 miles off France? Brexit was really a lashing out at the frustrations of globalisation and a system which just does not serve them. I doubt any of these people had any clue about what Brexit could mean but they probably didn't care. The mistake these people made is they chose the Tories to represent them but then again what choice did they have given the conflict within Labour on Brexit?

These systems do not serve them in the UK nor do they serve them in the EU so either way it was always going to be the least worst option. The remain campaign gloom was dominated by economics but when you can't get a job or can't afford food then do you really care about % changes in GDP causing the rich to not get richer or what about foreign investment banks moving to Frankfurt?

The divide and conquer approach to Brexit is especially ironic given this was such a huge vote and it required a popular mandate. Unfortunately the main argument put forward by remain is still that poor people were too thick to be trusted with the vote, they were also too thick to see the lies and they're also idiots for voting for the only party that said they'd see Brexit through.

I personally voted for remain because I thought the economics required preserving but I can completely understand why some voted the opposite. The system ultimately hasn't changed though and the Tories have done what the Tories usually do. Many of these people will therefore take out their renewed frustrations on the Tories next and this will cause a huge swing to Labour and the remaining politically homeless will go to Reform.

In any event in 5 years time we'll still be in the same position. The rich will be richer and the poor will stay poor. The Tories will promise populist type stuff and they'll get in again. The critics will then say the same thing, why do these poor idiots keep voting in Tory governments?

Absolutely this. The seeds of Brexit were down during the de-industrialisation, of the North in particular, of the 1980’s. What most of the working class and the poor were primarily voting for was change. Telling people who’ve actually got nothing that they’re going to be ‘worse off’ isn’t a great sell really. The leave campaign pressed all the right buttons on what was important. More jobs, more healthcare better this and that. Remain was, essentially, promising more of the same which, for a huge number of the disenfranchised was enough. How we square the circle is hugely difficult and we should never hesitate to call out the charlatans who encouraged this knowing full well what the consequences would be but throwing ire on to the poor seems somewhat misplaced.

 

[domalino]

@SebastianBlue I think you'll be interested in this graph. Income inequality is worse now than it was in the 18th century.

See if you can work out where Thatcher and Reagan came to power without looking at the X axis.



I also think you'll be very interested in reading up on The John Birch society and Robert Welch and their role in the root of all this - Fred Koch was a founding member of the JBS.

 

[Rascal]

What evidence is there that was even a semi-coherent movement amongst a majority of leave voters for a bigger state?

As I stated it is my belief that played a role, I did not say it was a coherent movement, but as Inbetween again points out

"Unfortunately the main argument put forward by remain is still that poor people were too thick to be trusted with the vote, they were also too thick to see the lies and they're also idiots for voting for the only party that said they'd see Brexit through."

In a class war you vote against the interests of those with Capital who promulgated the above quote,, therefore it is a quite natural assumption to make that a bigger state that looks after the interests of the people is an indicator of why people voted a certain way. Even Johnson for all his faults realised that there was underlying reasons why swathes of working class areas voted leave and although the levelling up agenda has been a miserable failure he did recognise it and Johnson is surprisingly a statist of sorts.


You only have to see what is happening today now Johnson is gone (thank fuck) the Tories have reverted to type and are running scared of statism once again. The anti Union laws, the failure to resolve strike action is a direct attack on public services. They are using the Culture wars to split the working class many of whom are socially conservative by nature. It is always divide and rule that is used as cover for Capitalist exploitation.

 

[inbetween]

Absolutely this. The seeds of Brexit were down during the de-industrialisation, of the North in particular, of the 1980’s. What most of the working class and the poor were primarily voting for was change. Telling people who’ve actually got nothing that they’re going to be ‘worse off’ isn’t a great sell really. The leave campaign pressed all the right buttons on what was important. More jobs, more healthcare better this and that. Remain was, essentially, promising more of the same which, for a huge number of the disenfranchised was enough. How we square the circle is hugely difficult and we should never hesitate to call out the charlatans who encouraged this knowing full well what the consequences would be but throwing ire on to the poor seems somewhat misplaced.

It's very difficult because it's impossible to reconcile the fact that globalisation has both destroyed livelihoods yet has improved our lives, it really depends on your personal situation. I'm in favour of it but then I'm not affected by it so it's really tricky to find a balanced view.

The only prospect for British steelworkers for example has gone from making steel to working in a warehouse for a faceless conglamorate like Amazon who will fight every pence increase in their pay and working conditions. How many people still however order from Amazon on a daily basis though, it must be hundreds of thousands? That transfer of wealth from your local shop and local people to a massive American company is just an example of why Brexit happened.

I think people want to work but they want to be proud of their job and get paid properly with good conditions, they also want to share the spoils. That isn't much to ask for but you'd struggle to get it from the kind of organisations who are now running the narrative of our economic system. When Richard Branson says you should vote remain from his lair on Necker Island then you surely have to ask why?

To sum it up, just look at our current PM and chancellor, neither were voted in and both were completely rejected by the Tory party. However, both are in power because the establishment and media colluded to make it so. So in one swift action they can replace a PM and change the narrative of politics yet we the electorate are powerless if we want to remove the Tories anytime soon. That just shows where our power lies really......