The Rise of the Far Right

[The perfect fumble]

The Ukrainians? Which ethno nationalists were against each other in the Maidan revolution?

This is whataboutery of the highest order.

When this war ends, if Putin gets his way Ukraine will be divided along ethnic lines, the predominantly Russian provinces and Crimea will be absorbed by Russia and the predominantly ethnic Ukrainian provinces will remain Ukrainian.

The end.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

Disagree to an extent. I think the “far” is useful to isolate the people who exist to meatshield their team from any criticism and attack the other team for any perceived issues (quite often using stuff they’ve read on the internet and not checked for themselves).

These days there are fucking loads of the above. They are “far” from their cause as their only cause is to attack the other team

I agree. That's sort of my point.
We never, ever, had this before the internet. A persons view were just that. Their own.
Politics were very rarely discussed. Opinions were, but nobody really got a label unless they were an out and out extremist.
My parents or grandparents never spoke of their leanings. Looking back my guess is that they Labour leaning, due to the fact we'd have the Daily/ Sunday Mirror, delivered. Although my Nan was quite partial to the News of the world.

 

[meltonblue]

This is whataboutery of the highest order.

When this war ends, if Putin gets his way Ukraine will be divided along ethnic lines, the predominantly Russian provinces and Crimea will be absorbed by Russia and the predominantly ethnic Ukrainian provinces will remain Ukrainian.

The end.

For the other thread but I wouldn’t say they’re along ethnic lines, not sure you mean that by your own definition of it though?

 

[madloaf]

those who supress free speech, getting people arrested for innocuous tweets, those supprting terrorists marching on our streets, those who think it's ok for men to use womens changing rooms and toilets, those who would allow men to share a cell in prison with a woman or a hospital ward, those who think its ok for people to arrive on our shores in record numbers illegaly but aint willing to take them in, thats who!

Make your mind up love.

 

[mind your car Mr?]

Make your mind up love.

well he did ask love

 

[The perfect fumble]

Which of those attributes is the key question and where people differ.

If citizens of the former British Empire believe that makes them part of our extended family, for want of a better phrase, then Lammy and Abbott tick every box, I've not thought it through myself, but I think it has merit, if it takes hold then Robinson can fuck of with his us and them, there'd only be us.

Ethnicity trumps race every time, that would leave the racists exposed for what they are, this may or may not have legs and there are pitfalls, not least the left's obsession with the legacy of Empire, but it has possibilities.

 

[meltonblue]

If citizens of the former British Empire believe that makes them part of our extended family, for want of a better phrase, then Lammy and Abbott tick every box, I've not thought it through myself, but I think it has merit, if it takes hold then Robinson can fuck of with his us and them, there'd only be us.

Ethnicity trumps race every time, that would leave the racists exposed for what they are, this may or may not have legs and there are pitfalls, not least the left's obsession with the legacy of Empire, but it has possibilities.

Lammy and Abbott won’t think it means all of those attributes, someone like Robinson is more likely to but he didn’t go that far before.

Completely agree with your premise though.

 

[M18CTID]

My view is we fucked up by allowing the NF and BNP cunts to hijack the flag in the first place, there are people who wouldn't dream of flying a flag or resort to any form of 'patriotism' even during a world cup or ashes. These people lost.
If everyone put up a St George's flag then it wouldn't mean anything if fucknuts also put them up. But that won't happen so I have no idea what the answer is apart from do what we always do and ignore it and hope it goes away.

It’s an interesting point but I’m not sure how any of us can truly stop those far right organisations from hijacking the flag

 

[M18CTID]

You think he was on the protest? :-) Also I don't think he's ever said there is no racism or that he supports a boastful racist.
It seems you prefer the simplistic answer and he doesn't and that's fine until you accuse people of being something without anything to back it up.

I'm not sure one extra poster shouting knuckle dragging racists is gonna solve much on a football forum. Your view of throwing your lot in is very fucking odd tbh.
But if you think him joining in(which he hasnt) will change anything knock yourself out.

* Please note

I wasn't in London yesterday
I don't support the shitbag Tommy
I don't vote for any right wing psrties and never will

Just in case you now think I'm' joining in' :-)

Look at his post on page one of this very thread mate. The very things he gets upset about - perceived pigeonholing of others - can be levelled at him. And I’ll say it again for the umpteenth time - several years ago he was more than happy to say Norfolk was full of racists but nowadays if anyone else dares call someone racist on here he’s straight down their throat. I honestly don’t know what his game is

 

[Vic]

Well said. According to some on here we have no culture, which is clearly a load of rubbish. As you’ve said we’re one of the oldest democracies on the planet and have a lot to be proud of.

An old democracy with not many people having the vote.

 

[Vic]

those who supress free speech, getting people arrested for innocuous tweets, those supprting terrorists marching on our streets, those who think it's ok for men to use womens changing rooms and toilets, those who would allow men to share a cell in prison with a woman or a hospital ward, those who think its ok for people to arrive on our shores in record numbers illegaly but aint willing to take them in, thats who!

Gosh, and I thought it was more like Stalin killing 20 million.

 

[Vic]

This is whataboutery of the highest order.

When this war ends, if Putin gets his way Ukraine will be divided along ethnic lines, the predominantly Russian provinces and Crimea will be absorbed by Russia and the predominantly ethnic Ukrainian provinces will remain Ukrainian.

The end.

So that sounds like under "ethno nationalism" it would be right to divide Ukraine as Putin wants. (Actually, if Putin gets his way, Ukraine wouldn't exist - it would all be Holy Rus. Putin doesn't believe in Ukrainian ethnicity.)

 

[The perfect fumble]

So that sounds like under "ethno nationalism" it would be right to divide Ukraine as Putin wants. (Actually, if Putin gets his way, Ukraine wouldn't exist - it would all be Holy Rus. Putin doesn't believe in Ukrainian ethnicity.)

No he doesn't but his does believe in Russian.

Come on! "Sounds like"? this ain't the school yard.

 

[Tiattos_Waterbottle]

I will indulge this.

Flippant is because folk are foaming at the mouth calling fumble some sort of racist which is so fucking laughably wide of the mark it’s untrue.

They’re guilty of exactly what he is telling them they’re guilty of but they won’t see it or face it.

Glib enough for you?

All I see is him word salading everyday, unable to define what he's actually talking about, talking in circular semantics, the intellectual equivalent of purple prose, I don't know if he is racist or not, but he's certainly dodging and defending the issue of far right influence, and to me he seems like a pseud, and it's a bit boring. Verbatim, he was asked what British culture is and his reply was "You'll know when you see it." - Not interested in debate, he's interested in arguing a point that I'm not sure is known to anyone but himself circularly on the daily and then insults people for asking wtf he's talking about.

If I turned the Telly on yesterday, I'd of seen a bunch of Police and Ambulance attacking patriots representing our country. So, maybe that is British culture.

 

[meltonblue]

So that sounds like under "ethno nationalism" it would be right to divide Ukraine as Putin wants. (Actually, if Putin gets his way, Ukraine wouldn't exist - it would all be Holy Rus. Putin doesn't believe in Ukrainian ethnicity.)

Worth saying Putin doesn’t advocate ethno-nationalism, he rejected it as much as he did multiculturalism and called it “caveman” and there was a spate of arrests of actual ethno nationalists after Crimea was annexed.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Worth saying Putin doesn’t advocate ethno-nationalism, he rejected it as much as he did multiculturalism and called it “caveman” and there was a spate of arrests of actual ethno nationalists after Crimea was annexed.

That's because ethno-nationalism threatens his multi ethnic country/empire.

 

[meltonblue]

That's because ethno-nationalism threatens his multi ethnic country/empire.

Pretty much, yes. Ironically, plenty in the west now seem to hold similar views, albeit for different reasons, which will be pleasing him no end. The fine line of cultural nationalism…

 

[Vic]

That's because ethno-nationalism threatens his multi ethnic country/empire.

So is that ethno-nationalism a Good Thing whereas the ethno-nationalism that was at the core of two world wars was a Bad Thing?

 

[The perfect fumble]

So is that ethno-nationalism a Good Thing whereas the ethno-nationalism that was at the core of two world wars was a Bad Thing?

It is just a thing, it exists and it continues to exist even if it is denied, in fact denying it makes it a bigger thing. Denying that there is an indigenous population does not make it so, all it does is piss off a chunk of the indigenous population, Denying that this country has a distinct culture as opposed to say the French or the Germans is not progressive it is a delusion and it pisses off the folk who value that culture.

Denial is not the first step to a solution to anything, realisation is.

 

[Vic]

It is just a thing, it exists and it continues to exist even if it is denied, in fact denying it makes it a bigger thing. Denying that there is an indigenous population does not make it so, all it does is piss off a chunk of the indigenous population, Denying that this country has a distinct culture as opposed to say the French or the Germans is not progressive it is a delusion and it pisses off the folk who value that culture.

Denial is not the first step to a solution to anything, realisation is.

So can the indigenous population be replaced by a new indigenous population? Illustrate your answer by reference to (a) Anglo Saxon migration to Britain, (b) either Australia or the USA, and (c) the state of Israel.