paphos-mcfc said:mindmyp's_n_q's said:Chris in London said:This is mildly worrying.
When the USSR broke up, as I understand it some of the the former USSR's strategic nuclear weapons were stored in Ukrainian territory.
The deal struck between Russia and Ukraine was that the weapons would be retrieved by Russia, and would thereafter be part of the sovereign assets of the Russian Republic and the Ukraine would have no claim on them. The quid pro quo was that Russia would forever more respect the territorial integrity of the Ukraine.
That obligation on Russia to respect Ukraine's territorial integrity is guaranteed by two western powers - the USA and the United Kingdom.
We have, in other words, a treaty obligation to go to Ukraine's aid if Russia violates its territorial integrity - including Ukrainian airspace.
This one could go nasty, people.
This will not go nasty people. There is no way in the world that anything will happen in a military sense between Russia the Uk and the US.
Fuck me about every two years North Korea pops up (the land with a leader who you cannot predict) and threatens to Nuke the south. What happens fuck all.
Till the day something does happen. I hate Russia, it's policies, it's president and most of the sullen, miserable people that I've met from there.
the US are worse than the Russians, however they have no intent of ever going toe to toe with a country with anywhere near their military capability so count that out.nmc said:Chris in London said:This is mildly worrying.
When the USSR broke up, as I understand it some of the the former USSR's strategic nuclear weapons were stored in Ukrainian territory.
The deal struck between Russia and Ukraine was that the weapons would be retrieved by Russia, and would thereafter be part of the sovereign assets of the Russian Republic and the Ukraine would have no claim on them. The quid pro quo was that Russia would forever more respect the territorial integrity of the Ukraine.
That obligation on Russia to respect Ukraine's territorial integrity is guaranteed by two western powers - the USA and the United Kingdom.
We have, in other words, a treaty obligation to go to Ukraine's aid if Russia violates its territorial integrity - including Ukrainian airspace.
This one could go nasty, people.
Putin must be shitting it - with the prospect of the UK military might storming into the Crimea with a water pistol and a pitch fork. We have no military capability - so we can forget any kind of military action. I'm not sure the US has the stomach for this either - although they do have the military might to more than go toe to toe with Russia. The Soviet Union may have collapsed but Russia has no respect for its neighbors and will manipulate this situation for maximum benefit. Putin is dangerous and the world stood by and let him bully Georgia - he will do the same here. The British more that any race should know appeasement is a waste of time where bully's are concerned. Unfortunately without any military capability and the total ineptness of the EU we will be wholly reliant on the US to manage this.
I thought Nicholas Cage sold all those weapons on?Chris in London said:This is mildly worrying.
When the USSR broke up, as I understand it some of the the former USSR's strategic nuclear weapons were stored in Ukrainian territory.
The deal struck between Russia and Ukraine was that the weapons would be retrieved by Russia, and would thereafter be part of the sovereign assets of the Russian Republic and the Ukraine would have no claim on them. The quid pro quo was that Russia would forever more respect the territorial integrity of the Ukraine.
That obligation on Russia to respect Ukraine's territorial integrity is guaranteed by two western powers - the USA and the United Kingdom.
We have, in other words, a treaty obligation to go to Ukraine's aid if Russia violates its territorial integrity - including Ukrainian airspace.
This one could go nasty, people.
so were fucked then?nmc said:Chris in London said:This is mildly worrying.
When the USSR broke up, as I understand it some of the the former USSR's strategic nuclear weapons were stored in Ukrainian territory.
The deal struck between Russia and Ukraine was that the weapons would be retrieved by Russia, and would thereafter be part of the sovereign assets of the Russian Republic and the Ukraine would have no claim on them. The quid pro quo was that Russia would forever more respect the territorial integrity of the Ukraine.
That obligation on Russia to respect Ukraine's territorial integrity is guaranteed by two western powers - the USA and the United Kingdom.
We have, in other words, a treaty obligation to go to Ukraine's aid if Russia violates its territorial integrity - including Ukrainian airspace.
This one could go nasty, people.
Putin must be shitting it - with the prospect of the UK military might storming into the Crimea with a water pistol and a pitch fork. We have no military capability - so we can forget any kind of military action. I'm not sure the US has the stomach for this either - although they do have the military might to more than go toe to toe with Russia. The Soviet Union may have collapsed but Russia has no respect for its neighbors and will manipulate this situation for maximum benefit. Putin is dangerous and the world stood by and let him bully Georgia - he will do the same here. The British more that any race should know appeasement is a waste of time where bully's are concerned. Unfortunately without any military capability and the total ineptness of the EU we will be wholly reliant on the US to manage this.
Believe me they were, I livedin Cyprus cheek by jowel with them for a yearnmc said:paphos-mcfc said:mindmyp's_n_q's said:This will not go nasty people. There is no way in the world that anything will happen in a military sense between Russia the Uk and the US.
Fuck me about every two years North Korea pops up (the land with a leader who you cannot predict) and threatens to Nuke the south. What happens fuck all.
Till the day something does happen. I hate Russia, it's policies, it's president and most of the sullen, miserable people that I've met from there.
Went to a basketball game at the Olympics involving Russia - loads of Russians in the crowd. Far and away the most rude, selfish ignorant people I have ever had the misfortune to come across. Just hope these were not representative of Russian people as a whole.
The Flash said:I think we should send BM's very own loon, Bovril, to broker a peace deal.
"24 years queen and country. Something, something Ukraines, blah blah defence barristers"
We'll have to do it democratically though. Poll?The Flash said:I think we should send BM's very own loon, Bovril, to broker a peace deal.
"24 years queen and country. Something, something Ukraines, blah blah defence barristers"
Chris in London said:For the hard of understanding, if the Russians do violate Ukraine's territory and the Ukrainian's do ask the UK/US for assistance (as they are entitled to do) we have two choices:
(1) comply with our treaty obligations and provide military assistance to the Ukraine.
(2) refuse to comply with our treaty obligations.
(3) find something in the small print that allows you to claim Ukraine had voided the treaty
(4) stick fingers in ears going "la la la la"
Option (1) may be a disaster waiting to happen in military terms but Option (2) is a disaster in diplomatic terms.
What worth will any treaty obligation the UK signs up to have if we renege on a commitment to Ukraine? What status would Britain have in the world if it makes promises that it doesn't deliver on when called to do so?
When you are between a rock and a hard place, bad things can happen.