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The Russians are on their way...why am I not shocked.
- Thread starter oakiecokie
- Start date
aguero93:20 said:We'll have to do it democratically though. Poll?The Flash said:I think we should send BM's very own loon, Bovril, to broker a peace deal.
"24 years queen and country. Something, something Ukraines, blah blah defence barristers"
No way. Bovril doesn't do democracy unless he's forcing it upon others in distant, dusty countries.
We can vote, but it should just be Bovril's name on the ballot paper.
aguero93:20
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That's democracy football style, great idea.The Flash said:aguero93:20 said:We'll have to do it democratically though. Poll?The Flash said:I think we should send BM's very own loon, Bovril, to broker a peace deal.
"24 years queen and country. Something, something Ukraines, blah blah defence barristers"
No way. Bovril doesn't do democracy unless he's forcing it upon others in distant, dusty countries.
We can vote, but it should just be Bovril's name on the ballot paper.
mindmyp's_n_q's
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Chris in London said:For the hard of understanding, if the Russians do violate Ukraine's territory and the Ukrainian's do ask the UK/US for assistance (as they are entitled to do) we have two choices:
(1) comply with our treaty obligations and provide military assistance to the Ukraine.
(2) refuse to comply with our treaty obligations.
Option (1) may be a disaster waiting to happen in military terms but Option (2) is a disaster in diplomatic terms.
What worth will any treaty obligation the UK signs up to have if we renege on a commitment to Ukraine? What status would Britain have in the world if it makes promises that it doesn't deliver on when called to do so?
When you are between a rock and a hard place, bad things can happen.
How did it go in Syria when we were asked for help (as they were entitled to do)? How did it go in Egypt when we demanded that democratic elections take place and when they did and the Muslim Brootherhood got in we suddenly did not like that version of democracy?
The UK, USA and Russia will not rock the boat in any way that could see conflict directly between those countries.
Chris in London
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mindmyp's_n_q's said:Chris in London said:For the hard of understanding, if the Russians do violate Ukraine's territory and the Ukrainian's do ask the UK/US for assistance (as they are entitled to do) we have two choices:
(1) comply with our treaty obligations and provide military assistance to the Ukraine.
(2) refuse to comply with our treaty obligations.
Option (1) may be a disaster waiting to happen in military terms but Option (2) is a disaster in diplomatic terms.
What worth will any treaty obligation the UK signs up to have if we renege on a commitment to Ukraine? What status would Britain have in the world if it makes promises that it doesn't deliver on when called to do so?
When you are between a rock and a hard place, bad things can happen.
How did it go in Syria when we were asked for help (as they were entitled to do)? How did it go in Egypt when we demanded that democratic elections take place and when they did and the Muslim Brootherhood got in we suddenly did not like that version of democracy?
The UK, USA and Russia will not rock the boat in any way that could see conflict directly between those countries.
You will have to remind me of the treaty obligation we signed up to that said if Syria is invaded by a foreign power Britain will go to its aid. Failing that, you will need to help me on why Syria was entitled to our aid in the absence of any specific commitment on our part - such as the specific commitment given to Ukraine.
I hope you are right about rocking the boat. My point is that IF the boat is rocked it puts us, one way or another, in a difficult place.
Blue Til Death
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Big-P said:If history tells us one thing it's that it can kick off big time over little things
As my ex will testify when she caught me shagging her mum.. !!
aguero93:20
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too much detail mate.Blue Til Death said:Big-P said:If history tells us one thing it's that it can kick off big time over little things
As my ex will testify when she caught me shagging her mum.. !!
aguero93:20 said:not enough detail mate.Blue Til Death said:Big-P said:If history tells us one thing it's that it can kick off big time over little things
As my ex will testify when she caught me shagging her mum.. !!
Chris in London said:For the hard of understanding, if the Russians do violate Ukraine's territory and the Ukrainian's do ask the UK/US for assistance (as they are entitled to do) we have two choices:
(1) comply with our treaty obligations and provide military assistance to the Ukraine.
(2) refuse to comply with our treaty obligations.
Option (1) may be a disaster waiting to happen in military terms but Option (2) is a disaster in diplomatic terms.
What worth will any treaty obligation the UK signs up to have if we renege on a commitment to Ukraine? What status would Britain have in the world if it makes promises that it doesn't deliver on when called to do so?
When you are between a rock and a hard place, bad things can happen.
There is no chance in hell we will rush to their aid treaty or not. We don't really have any military to assist them with. We have like one aircraft carrier is it now? And didn't we get rid of a load of jets to save money as well? Plus we have one of the smallest armies going which is continually being cut so wouldn't fancy our chances against the Russians thats for sure.
Putin's Russia is like the school bully going round asking for your money or they'll batter you. No one wants to stand up to them as they know what that would mean so they just roll over for him time and time again. But as for option 2 that sounds about right for where Britain is as a country these days. We are skint, we have no real military and we have an outdated nuclear deterrent. So yeah I can deffo see us pussying out and leaving them to it.