The Russians are on their way...why am I not shocked.

Skashion said:
BoyBlue_1985 said:
I asked you to expand on why I was talking shit.
Ideologically they are poles apart so maybe my choice of US news company was wrong but essentially they are always towing the Russian party line and when they are not doing that they are telling everyone why the USA is so bad.
What I was trying to point out is that listening to RT for news on bad stuff Russia is doing elsewhere in the world is a bit like watching Fox News on stuff that the US is doing bad elsewhere in the world, fairly one sided
Fox News is only a cheerleader for the United States when it is Republicans in charge. They spend all day criticising Obama on all kinds of imagined offences simply because he's a Democrat and they are highly conservative. That should be Conservative with a big C actually because they love change as long as it favours the wealthy. They are mouthpieces for the Republicans and for Rupert Murdoch. Russia Today may well be a mouthpiece for the Russian state at times like this but most of the time its presenters and guests offer a refreshing counterpoint to the status quo. Can you imagine Ahmadinejad and Julian Assange as guests on Fox? Julian Assange actually had his own show on Russia Today for a while. He is public enemy no. 1 on Fox. Can you imagine George Galloway being a regular commentator on Fox? They have socialists, libertarians, anarchists, civil rights activists on there frequently. Do they have that on Fox? Fuck no. Russia Today is actually interesting most of the time because it's very different from the Fox News, Daily Mail hyper right-wing shite. Most of the time it's a left-wing or anti-establishment channel and that's why it's quite popular. It's different from almost anything out there.
Its essentially why I pointed out foreign affairs involving the countries military actions rather than other news. I can quite imagine RT would have Assange, Galloway and Ahmadinejad as guests because they dont like the USA or criticise the west. RT loves criticising the west its like a hobby just like the west loves criticising Russia et al via the media (take your pick on many news channels).
Although the BBC must be okay because the Daily Mail hate them.
My analogy was poor but I was trying to pick out the opposite sensationalist media outlet
 
BoyBlue_1985 said:
Its essentially why I pointed out foreign affairs involving the countries military actions rather than other news. I can quite imagine RT would have Assange, Galloway and Ahmadinejad as guests because they dont like the USA or criticise the west. RT loves criticising the west its like a hobby just like the west loves criticising Russia et al via the media (take your pick on many news channels).
Although the BBC must be okay because the Daily Mail hate them.
My analogy was poor but I was trying to pick out the opposite sensationalist media outlet
Yes, your analogy was very poor. It's that I'm criticising. You could have just laid out your criticisms of Russia Today instead. I too wouldn't go near it for info on Russian matters because I know I will not receive a balanced or critical opinion. On other matters though, I think it adds a welcome counterpoint to the occupation of the media by very wealthy right-wing media barons. Russia Today devotes time to a lot of issues that do need highlighting. It may do so because it's anti-western but it doesn't mean the issues highlighted are any less relevant so I'm not that concerned about why they do it. It can often be quite legitimate to criticise the west you know, especially western meddling in the affairs of others. This being a classic case.
 
Tbf skashion and blue boy the only way you'll get a balanced view is by listening to all sides and making up your own mind.
 
aguero93:20 said:
Tbf skashion and blue boy the only way you'll get a balanced view is by listening to all sides and making up your own mind.
True. Balanced was a bad word to use. I could not give two fucks about balance actually. I care about objectivity, not balance.
 
Skashion said:
aguero93:20 said:
Tbf skashion and blue boy the only way you'll get a balanced view is by listening to all sides and making up your own mind.
True. Balanced was a bad word to use. I could not give two fucks about balance actually. I care about objectivity, not balance.
objectivity is very hard to find with the east-west divide, everyone has something to lose, an internal filter is your best bet.
 
aguero93:20 said:
Tbf skashion and blue boy the only way you'll get a balanced view is by listening to all sides and making up your own mind.
Actually I don't think that's true, that one can make a correct judgement of the truth of a situation (for what else is a "balanced view"?) by listening to all sides unless 'all sides' includes a multi-source study of all the background issues around the situation, including impartial, academic reports. No one has the time to do that, so maybe we should just assume that both sides in a political, rhetorical debate are 'lying', by omission if not by commission, for their own ends and that the truth lies elsewhere?

It's like A saying "The ball I'm holding is red" and B saying "That [same] ball that I'm now holding is blue". What colour is the ball? Red? Blue? Purple? Mauve? Lilac? Orange? Green? Yellow? White with a tinge of some indistinct colour? Who can say without actually seeing the ball for oneself?

But we do believe 'our side' in general, don't we(?), because 'they' have 'our' best interests at heart, don't they(!)
 
Skashion said:
BoyBlue_1985 said:
Its essentially why I pointed out foreign affairs involving the countries military actions rather than other news. I can quite imagine RT would have Assange, Galloway and Ahmadinejad as guests because they dont like the USA or criticise the west. RT loves criticising the west its like a hobby just like the west loves criticising Russia et al via the media (take your pick on many news channels).
Although the BBC must be okay because the Daily Mail hate them.
My analogy was poor but I was trying to pick out the opposite sensationalist media outlet
Yes, your analogy was very poor. It's that I'm criticising. You could have just laid out your criticisms of Russia Today instead. I too wouldn't go near it for info on Russian matters because I know I will not receive a balanced or critical opinion. On other matters though, I think it adds a welcome counterpoint to the occupation of the media by very wealthy right-wing media barons. Russia Today devotes time to a lot of issues that do need highlighting. It may do so because it's anti-western but it doesn't mean the issues highlighted are any less relevant so I'm not that concerned about why they do it. It can often be quite legitimate to criticise the west you know, especially western meddling in the affairs of others. This being a classic case.
I got what BoyBlue_1985 was saying in essence, although I think it could have been expressed better. RT is cheerleader for the Russian state as Fox is for the corporate interests that effectively run the US. RT is up Putin's arse, Fox is up corporate America's arse. The poodle of corporate America is the Republican party, although the Democrat party will also do their bidding 99% [I made that stat up!] of the time and just 1% for the people in order to retain their voting commitment.

RT has disappeared from my Freesat list unfortunately. It is good to be able to hear criticisms of Western (corporate democracy) activities, although I suspect RT doesn't dare go to the heart of the matter - the wanton destruction of humanity, society and the environment in pursuit of short-term profit - as Russia is now in on the 'free market' free-for-all itself.

- - - - -

Anyway, the British Brainwashing Corporation has succeeded in scaring my soon-to-be 94-year old mother (a twenty year old at the outbreak of WW2) witless with all this talk of conflict and possible war in Ukraine. Job done BBC.
 
Skashion said:
BoyBlue_1985 said:
I asked you to expand on why I was talking shit.
Ideologically they are poles apart so maybe my choice of US news company was wrong but essentially they are always towing the Russian party line and when they are not doing that they are telling everyone why the USA is so bad.
What I was trying to point out is that listening to RT for news on bad stuff Russia is doing elsewhere in the world is a bit like watching Fox News on stuff that the US is doing bad elsewhere in the world, fairly one sided
Fox News is only a cheerleader for the United States when it is Republicans in charge. They spend all day criticising Obama on all kinds of imagined offences simply because he's a Democrat and they are highly conservative. That should be Conservative with a big C actually because they love change as long as it favours the wealthy. They are mouthpieces for the Republicans and for Rupert Murdoch. Russia Today may well be a mouthpiece for the Russian state at times like this but most of the time its presenters and guests offer a refreshing counterpoint to the status quo. Can you imagine Ahmadinejad and Julian Assange as guests on Fox? Julian Assange actually had his own show on Russia Today for a while. He is public enemy no. 1 on Fox. Can you imagine George Galloway being a regular commentator on Fox? They have socialists, libertarians, anarchists, civil rights activists on there frequently. Do they have that on Fox? Fuck no. Russia Today is actually interesting most of the time because it's very different from the Fox News, Daily Mail hyper right-wing shite. Most of the time it's a left-wing or anti-establishment channel and that's why it's quite popular. It's different from almost anything out there.

yes I find RT very interesting just have to watch what you believe just like all news channels I suppose.
 
mancityvstoke said:
Skashion said:
BoyBlue_1985 said:
I asked you to expand on why I was talking shit.
Ideologically they are poles apart so maybe my choice of US news company was wrong but essentially they are always towing the Russian party line and when they are not doing that they are telling everyone why the USA is so bad.
What I was trying to point out is that listening to RT for news on bad stuff Russia is doing elsewhere in the world is a bit like watching Fox News on stuff that the US is doing bad elsewhere in the world, fairly one sided
Fox News is only a cheerleader for the United States when it is Republicans in charge. They spend all day criticising Obama on all kinds of imagined offences simply because he's a Democrat and they are highly conservative. That should be Conservative with a big C actually because they love change as long as it favours the wealthy. They are mouthpieces for the Republicans and for Rupert Murdoch. Russia Today may well be a mouthpiece for the Russian state at times like this but most of the time its presenters and guests offer a refreshing counterpoint to the status quo. Can you imagine Ahmadinejad and Julian Assange as guests on Fox? Julian Assange actually had his own show on Russia Today for a while. He is public enemy no. 1 on Fox. Can you imagine George Galloway being a regular commentator on Fox? They have socialists, libertarians, anarchists, civil rights activists on there frequently. Do they have that on Fox? Fuck no. Russia Today is actually interesting most of the time because it's very different from the Fox News, Daily Mail hyper right-wing shite. Most of the time it's a left-wing or anti-establishment channel and that's why it's quite popular. It's different from almost anything out there.

yes I find RT very interesting just have to watch what you believe just like all news channels I suppose.

And there LIES the problem... We are merely pigs that get fed bullshit so-called NEWS..I wonder how many bills have been passed and more rights taken away in this country alone as we all look towards the Ukraine..
Trust none of it and none of them.
 
Not 100% sure what Putin just said because his mouth moved therefore he lied and my Russian is rusty at best but I think he just began annexing the Crimea from the Ukraine
 
so Putin saying he will respect Ukraine other than Crimea which he wants back but will respect any minorities

and there would appear to be a majority in Crimea who want this also

I understand that the referendum *may* have been rigged so send in the UN and do it again and make sure they aren't

if both sides are proven to want Crimea to be russian then whats the problem as long as all the treaties are drawn up and monitored/enforced by the UN

if there had been no russian intervention then would we not support their right to be independent if thats what they were wanted and were pursuing?.....like scotland

and if they became independent and then chose to become part of russia then that would be their choice

OK the Russians have gone about it cack-handedly but rather than going down the cold war route why aren't we just encouraging them and Ukraine to go about it in a proper democratic fashion......................like we have done recently in the Falklands
 
buzzer1 said:
mancityvstoke said:
Skashion said:
Fox News is only a cheerleader for the United States when it is Republicans in charge. They spend all day criticising Obama on all kinds of imagined offences simply because he's a Democrat and they are highly conservative. That should be Conservative with a big C actually because they love change as long as it favours the wealthy. They are mouthpieces for the Republicans and for Rupert Murdoch. Russia Today may well be a mouthpiece for the Russian state at times like this but most of the time its presenters and guests offer a refreshing counterpoint to the status quo. Can you imagine Ahmadinejad and Julian Assange as guests on Fox? Julian Assange actually had his own show on Russia Today for a while. He is public enemy no. 1 on Fox. Can you imagine George Galloway being a regular commentator on Fox? They have socialists, libertarians, anarchists, civil rights activists on there frequently. Do they have that on Fox? Fuck no. Russia Today is actually interesting most of the time because it's very different from the Fox News, Daily Mail hyper right-wing shite. Most of the time it's a left-wing or anti-establishment channel and that's why it's quite popular. It's different from almost anything out there.

yes I find RT very interesting just have to watch what you believe just like all news channels I suppose.

And there LIES the problem... We are merely pigs that get fed bullshit so-called NEWS..I wonder how many bills have been passed and more rights taken away in this country alone as we all look towards the Ukraine..
Trust none of it and none of them.
Good old Disaster politics :)
 
A Ukrainian serviceman has been killed by Russian troops at a a military base in the Crimea , not good.
 
Putin: West 'Has Crossed A Line On Crimea'

e-mail

Russian President Vladimir Putin has received a standing ovation in parliament after defending Crimea's breakaway vote to join Moscow.

To regular applause during a televised address to the nation, he pointed out that 82% of Crimea's residents turned out for Sunday's referendum, and more than 96% of them voted to join Russia.

He said the vote was "quite convincing" and was held "in full accordance with democratic procedures and international legal norms".

"The (Crimean) issue has a vital importance, a historic importance for all of us," he said.

US Vice President Joe Biden, who has arrived in Poland for a two-day trip through Eastern Europe, dismissed Russia's actions as "nothing more than a land grab".

America and its G7 allies - Britain, Germany, Canada, France, Japan and Italy - will gather next week at The Hague to discuss "further steps they may take" against Russia.

Mr Putin said he did not want to "carve up" Ukraine, but said the West had "crossed a line" with its behaviour over the former Soviet country.

"They are trying to drive us into a corner," he told a joint session of parliament in Moscow.

He also accused the West of hypocrisy, pointing to Kosovo's bloody independence from Serbia, which was backed by the West and opposed by Russia.

His speech came as he signed a treaty making Crimea officially part of Russia. It coincided with a mass rally, celebrating ties between Russia and Crimea, in Moscow's Red Square.

Mr Putin also thanked Ukraine's soldiers for "not staining themselves in blood in Crimea".

He said the peninsula's future was decided without a shot being fired because it was "practically impossible to fight the will of people."

Western leaders say Crimea's vote was illegal and have imposed travel bans and asset freezes on senior Moscow officials.

British Prime Minister David Cameron said Russia's actions "are in flagrant breach of international law and send a chilling message across the continent of Europe."

After Mr Putin spoke, British Foreign Secretary William Hague tweeted: "Preparatory work is now underway for a third tier of sanctions, including economic and trade measures."

Meanwhile, one of Ukraine's top politicians told Sky News his country is ready to fight if Russian soldiers cross the border from Crimea into mainland Ukraine.

Serhiy Taruta, governor of the eastern city of Donetsk, warned: "We're going to have a war. Our people will take up arms and they will protect our country."

Under the Russian treaty, Crimea will ditch Ukraine's currency, the Hryvnia, and adopt the Rouble next month.

It is also due to move time zones - adopting Moscow time, which is two hours ahead of Kiev - on March 30.

The peninsula is also offering Crimean soldiers the chance to join the Russian army.
 
Someone should have asked Biden the moral distance between oil grabs and land grabs. Hypocritical Twunt.
 
Skashion said:
BoyBlue_1985 said:
I asked you to expand on why I was talking shit.
Ideologically they are poles apart so maybe my choice of US news company was wrong but essentially they are always towing the Russian party line and when they are not doing that they are telling everyone why the USA is so bad.
What I was trying to point out is that listening to RT for news on bad stuff Russia is doing elsewhere in the world is a bit like watching Fox News on stuff that the US is doing bad elsewhere in the world, fairly one sided
Fox News is only a cheerleader for the United States when it is Republicans in charge. They spend all day criticising Obama on all kinds of imagined offences simply because he's a Democrat and they are highly conservative. That should be Conservative with a big C actually because they love change as long as it favours the wealthy. They are mouthpieces for the Republicans and for Rupert Murdoch. Russia Today may well be a mouthpiece for the Russian state at times like this but most of the time its presenters and guests offer a refreshing counterpoint to the status quo. Can you imagine Ahmadinejad and Julian Assange as guests on Fox? Julian Assange actually had his own show on Russia Today for a while. He is public enemy no. 1 on Fox. Can you imagine George Galloway being a regular commentator on Fox? They have socialists, libertarians, anarchists, civil rights activists on there frequently. Do they have that on Fox? Fuck no. Russia Today is actually interesting most of the time because it's very different from the Fox News, Daily Mail hyper right-wing shite. Most of the time it's a left-wing or anti-establishment channel and that's why it's quite popular. It's different from almost anything out there.
Sounds horrible.
 
oakiecokie said:
Putin: West 'Has Crossed A Line On Crimea'

e-mail

Russian President Vladimir Putin has received a standing ovation in parliament after defending Crimea's breakaway vote to join Moscow.

To regular applause during a televised address to the nation, he pointed out that 82% of Crimea's residents turned out for Sunday's referendum, and more than 96% of them voted to join Russia.

He said the vote was "quite convincing" and was held "in full accordance with democratic procedures and international legal norms".

"The (Crimean) issue has a vital importance, a historic importance for all of us," he said.

US Vice President Joe Biden, who has arrived in Poland for a two-day trip through Eastern Europe, dismissed Russia's actions as "nothing more than a land grab".

America and its G7 allies - Britain, Germany, Canada, France, Japan and Italy - will gather next week at The Hague to discuss "further steps they may take" against Russia.

Mr Putin said he did not want to "carve up" Ukraine, but said the West had "crossed a line" with its behaviour over the former Soviet country.

"They are trying to drive us into a corner," he told a joint session of parliament in Moscow.

He also accused the West of hypocrisy, pointing to Kosovo's bloody independence from Serbia, which was backed by the West and opposed by Russia.

His speech came as he signed a treaty making Crimea officially part of Russia. It coincided with a mass rally, celebrating ties between Russia and Crimea, in Moscow's Red Square.

Mr Putin also thanked Ukraine's soldiers for "not staining themselves in blood in Crimea".

He said the peninsula's future was decided without a shot being fired because it was "practically impossible to fight the will of people."

Western leaders say Crimea's vote was illegal and have imposed travel bans and asset freezes on senior Moscow officials.

British Prime Minister David Cameron said Russia's actions "are in flagrant breach of international law and send a chilling message across the continent of Europe."

After Mr Putin spoke, British Foreign Secretary William Hague tweeted: "Preparatory work is now underway for a third tier of sanctions, including economic and trade measures."

Meanwhile, one of Ukraine's top politicians told Sky News his country is ready to fight if Russian soldiers cross the border from Crimea into mainland Ukraine.

Serhiy Taruta, governor of the eastern city of Donetsk, warned: "We're going to have a war. Our people will take up arms and they will protect our country."

Under the Russian treaty, Crimea will ditch Ukraine's currency, the Hryvnia, and adopt the Rouble next month.

It is also due to move time zones - adopting Moscow time, which is two hours ahead of Kiev - on March 30.

The peninsula is also offering Crimean soldiers the chance to join the Russian army.

You got an e-mail off Putin?
Fucking hell oakie - you da man.
 

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