The SATS con and our education system

[I'm With Stupid]

I rarely helped my kids with homework and they’re doing alright now. I tried helping my daughter once with Maths and it ended up in an argument, they were teaching them very differently than I was, but the teachers were telling them to ask their parents for help if they got stuck! Lazy fu..

Also pointless, because the whole point of homework is to see if the kids have understood, not to see if they have parents who know how to do it.

 

[PragueBlue]

Really ? I would guarantee there are many more jobs where you need to know about algebra, logs and "shit", than there are where you need to be able to quote and interpret Tennyson or Robert Browning. Or for that matter knowing what an oxbow lake is and its formation or understanding medieval England under Edward I.

There are certainly some GCSEs that seem rather pointless, or at least in my eyes, Drama (its a hobby), Religious Studies (dont get me started), PE (join a sports club and if you want to know about human mechanics do Biology).

To add to those Chemistry, which is taught at GCSE and then when you do it at A Level you might as well forget everything you did previously as it was mostly bobbins.

Then theres the missing useful GCSE. Why not have a GCSE in Construction instead (bit of electrics, plumbing, carpentry, metal bashing etc). Great if you want to get into the trades, but also if you're lucky enough to be able to own a property, which I know is a pipe dream for many, you can do some of the DIY yourself.

I agree with most of what you have posted (especially about the addition of some more 'practical' GCSEs) but disagree about the ones you class as pointless. Drama doesn't have to be a hobby and really helps to build self-confidence, PE focuses on different aspects of human mechanics than a biology GCSE does and like it or not, religion has shaped much of our culture and history. I think all subjects have value and students should have as wide a choice as possible.

 

[PragueBlue]

I rarely helped my kids with homework and they’re doing alright now. I tried helping my daughter once with Maths and it ended up in an argument, they were teaching them very differently than I was, but the teachers were telling them to ask their parents for help if they got stuck! Lazy fu..

I didn't help my kids with their homework but I did help them with revision for exams in subjects that they were struggling with. I remember spending countless hours trying to understand maths and the sciences so I could actually be of some use. I thought it would be quite simple as an adult but it really wasn't. They are either learning something different than I did when I was at school or my mental faculties are in decline!

 

[give it to gordon]

My mum was a teacher and tought in a few schools from CoE to what was the worst school in Kent and in the bottom ten in the UK league tables.

Mum always said her best time at teaching was in the worst school in Kent. This may sound odd.

But in the local grammar school the kids came in expecting to get 8 or 9 top marks, which they kids did. At mums school the kids came in expecting to leave with nothing. 95% of the kids did leave with some quifications.

So which school improved the kids ? The school were kids were expected to leave with 8 or 9 and did, or the school were kids were expecting to leave with nothing but left with some quifications.

Mum was always proud to get this kids through to some quifications, these kids came from the poorest areas etc. The grammar school kids didn't.

League tables don't tell the real work that goes on to improve kids it just goes by exam results. So if the school cherry picks all the 'best' kids it's top

 

[Corky]

My mum was a teacher and tought in a few schools from CoE to what was the worst school in Kent and in the bottom ten in the UK league tables.

Mum always said her best time at teaching was in the worst school in Kent. This may sound odd.

But in the local grammar school the kids came in expecting to get 8 or 9 top marks, which they kids did. At mums school the kids came in expecting to leave with nothing. 95% of the kids did leave with some quifications.

So which school improved the kids ? The school were kids were expected to leave with 8 or 9 and did, or the school were kids were expecting to leave with nothing but left with some quifications.

Mum was always proud to get this kids through to some quifications, these kids came from the poorest areas etc. The grammar school kids didn't.

League tables don't tell the real work that goes on to improve kids it just goes by exam results. So if the school cherry picks all the 'best' kids it's top

Did she teach a few future Barbers?

 

[Blue Maverick]

Seems I’m not alone with my thoughts on this then, @Damocles is spot on, I did in the 80s about 8/9 GCSEs passed 5. These days kids seem to be doing 13/14 and passing them all, now I’m not thick, just shit at exams but how these kids are getting this many seems either we have a bunch of geniuses or the marks are low.
I agree that there should now be a subject which teaches life skill, whether this is how to manage money to simply changing a light bulb or plug. We had people joining the fire service who had zero manual skills, which considering the job is quite stark.
Someone mentioned about struggling to help their kids with homework and this is a massive issue for me,I’m an older parent so my learning comes from the 80s, the way they learn now is alien to me, so when my daughter asks for help, my simplified way (to me) is completely different, also thank god for you tube to help me help her.
My daughter is due to go to secondary school from September so that will be fun!

 

[Fred_Quimby]

It is long past time that people realised that what they have been taught in their younger days plays a huge part in the life they lead. I have lost count of the number of people who say ‘I have never used this or never used that’ and yet they read bus timetables, constantly working out unknown amounts (algebra) but never realise what they are doing. They write posts on here but never think that they use past participles etc. They don’t think they use them but they do but tell everyone that they never use them or know what they do. They are always doing them selves down. Never use ox bow lake knowledge? Yet knowledge of these helps to understand why flood plains are so important.

Knowledge helps you understand what is going on in then world. It helps you to know when people are trying to con you. Politicians rely on ignorance to con people into voting for them. Knowledge helps you to question them.

Incidentally, the kids around here take SATS and 11+ (We still have grammar schools). Kids don’t have to take SATS just keep your kids off.

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

Seems I’m not alone with my thoughts on this then, @Damocles is spot on, I did in the 80s about 8/9 GCSEs passed 5. These days kids seem to be doing 13/14 and passing them all, now I’m not thick, just shit at exams but how these kids are getting this many seems either we have a bunch of geniuses or the marks are low.
I agree that there should now be a subject which teaches life skill, whether this is how to manage money to simply changing a light bulb or plug. We had people joining the fire service who had zero manual skills, which considering the job is quite stark.
Someone mentioned about struggling to help their kids with homework and this is a massive issue for me,I’m an older parent so my learning comes from the 80s, the way they learn now is alien to me, so when my daughter asks for help, my simplified way (to me) is completely different, also thank god for you tube to help me help her.
My daughter is due to go to secondary school from September so that will be fun!

One of my ex teachers worked for the JMB (exam paper authors) as an exam marker. He said, at the time, that the top x number of students got an A, the next x number got B and so on down to E. So it wasn’t down to what percentage you got in an exam, it was where you ranked alongside your peer group doing the same paper, and it was done this way to even out different difficulties of papers between years. That means every year should have roughly the same number of people getting each grade, but clearly the system changed somewhere (I’m guessing when GCSEs came in) so that everyone gets an A or A* or A** or 1 or whatever they use now.

 

[Blue Maverick]

It is long past time that people realised that what they have been taught in their younger days plays a huge part in the life they lead. I have lost count of the number of people who say ‘I have never used this or never used that’ and yet they read bus timetables, constantly working out unknown amounts (algebra) but never realise what they are doing. They write posts on here but never think that they use past participles etc. They don’t think they use them but they do but tell everyone that they never use them or know what they do. They are always doing them selves down. Never use ox bow lake knowledge? Yet knowledge of these helps to understand why flood plains are so important.

Knowledge helps you understand what is going on in then world. It helps you to know when people are trying to con you. Politicians rely on ignorance to con people into voting for them. Knowledge helps you to question them.

Incidentally, the kids around here take SATS and 11+ (We still have grammar schools). Kids don’t have to take SATS just keep your kids off.

And then get a massive fine! What I find even amongst younger adults I met through work is the lack of general knowledge, I didn’t read a great deal as kid but I did watch a lot of tv, I picked up lots of stuff, which although mainly useless it does give me a a mind of useless facts etc, I know the younger generation tend to get most info from tik tok etc but even people in history or even geography of the world they haven’t a clue. I’m not slagging them off, I met some of the nicest youngsters (god I’m an old fart) I just think a lot lack the life skills and knowledge for modern life, or maybe I just have a clouded memory of what it was like when I was starting out in the world.

 

[PragueBlue]

One of my ex teachers worked for the JMB (exam paper authors) as an exam marker. He said, at the time, that the top x number of students got an A, the next x number got B and so on down to E. So it wasn’t down to what percentage you got in an exam, it was where you ranked alongside your peer group doing the same paper, and it was done this way to even out different difficulties of papers between years. That means every year should have roughly the same number of people getting each grade, but clearly the system changed somewhere (I’m guessing when GCSEs came in) so that everyone gets an A or A* or A** or 1 or whatever they use now.

Let's hope they don't all get a 1 as it is the lowest mark. 9 is now the highest and used for GCSEs. I can assure you though that not many students get all 9s at GCSE or A*s at A level.