The Scottish Politics thread

[Ban-jani]

It’s a valid opinion and independence comes with many risks but also a great many opportunities. Membership of the Uk seems to be going in the one direction and without significant change, including devolved powers in England, I cannot see it lasting much longer. If sturgeon puts forward a credible plan and the SGC report provides a comprehensive start point then I believe there will be support for independence. Perhaps one of the most profound legacies of Brexit.

I am not entirely opposed to the idea of an independent England myself, the idea of having the UK broken up is very sad but I’m getting a bit fed up with the anti English sentiment around the islands, so maybe it is time to do it and see how they all fair alone.

The best course of action is further devolution, with England being chopped up into 2/3 sections, maybe a north and a south, for their parliaments, with it all coming under the heading of the United Kingdom and certain things, such as defence, coming centrally.

The economic reality for an independent Scotland is bleak though and anyone saying otherwise whilst being against Brexit, is more confused than Scooby Do.

 

[bluethrunthru]

It’s a valid opinion and independence comes with many risks but also a great many opportunities.

Many on here who rail against scots indy are pro Brexit and you could use that phrase to describe that - funny how it only applies once though eh?

 

[Saddleworth2]

I am not entirely opposed to the idea of an independent England myself, the idea of having the UK broken up is very sad but I’m getting a bit fed up with the anti English sentiment around the islands, so maybe it is time to do it and see how they all fair alone.

The best course of action is further devolution, with England being chopped up into 2/3 sections, maybe a north and a south, for their parliaments, with it all coming under the heading of the United Kingdom and certain things, such as defence, coming centrally.

The economic reality for an independent Scotland is bleak though and anyone saying otherwise whilst being against Brexit, is more confused than Scooby Do.

Anti English is a huge phrase and I have to say I haven't really considered it to be widespread.
I'm sure that you have studied the subject a great deal more closely than the SGC have mate. Its a wonder that Nicola doesn't hire you and @mcfc1632 as special consultants. It would avoid a great deal of angst.

 

[Ban-jani]

Anti English is a huge phrase and I have to say I haven't really considered it to be widespread.
I'm sure that you have studied the subject a great deal more closely than the SGC have mate. Its a wonder that Nicola doesn't hire you and @mcfc1632 as special consultants. It would avoid a great deal of angst.

We were having a decent chat until now.

Sad really.

 

[Saddleworth2]

We were having a decent chat until now.

Sad really.

i'm only pulling your leg mate. Lighten up.

 

[Ban-jani]

i'm only pulling your leg mate. Lighten up.

In all fairness the Scottish don’t like the English, even my Scottish mate who lives in Stockport doesn’t.

 

[west didsblue]

The economic reality for an independent Scotland is bleak though and anyone saying otherwise whilst being against Brexit, is more confused than Scooby Do.

The short term economic reality for an independent Scotland would indeed be bleak but a longer term view of it based on Scottish EU membership and the migration of business from England to take advantage of Scotland’s EU membership is more difficult to say. There are millions of people living in England who were either born in Scotland or have recent Scottish ancestry that would be eligible for post independence Scottish citizenship. I suspect there will be quite a few of those that will head north with their businesses should Scotland achieve EU membership.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

It was a joke about Stirling/Sterling.

In reality, the banknotes are technically not officially legal tender. The three issuing banks have to hold the equivalent of every banknote issued in BoE banknotes or gold. The coins are the same.

We split from the 'Gold Standard' many years ago which allowed the UK to do a quantitive easing program . (same as the states) We can print as much money as we like (as long as we can control inflation)

Scotland is not allowed to raise debt.

 

[Ban-jani]

The short term economic reality for an independent Scotland would indeed be bleak but a longer term view of it based on Scottish EU membership and the migration of business from England to take advantage of Scotland’s EU membership is more difficult to say. There are millions of people living in England who were either born in Scotland or have recent Scottish ancestry that would be eligible for post independence Scottish citizenship. I suspect there will be quite a few of those that will head north with their businesses should Scotland achieve EU membership.

I couldn’t disagree more, the migration will be swiftly south, not north.

Scotland aren’t guaranteed EU membership and even if they somehow convinced the EU, they would be forced to enact a stern austerity, as Croatia were made to, to get their deficit-GDP down to 3%.

It’ll likely be 12%+ by the time they push for that, possibly much more.

Even with EU granting them membership, they will be relying on England granting them a significant transition period that favours them over us.

That’s not even moving on to the border and MFN.

As I’ve said, it’ll make Brexit look like a stubbed toe, compared to blowing your foot off with a shotgun.

 

[west didsblue]

I couldn’t disagree more, the migration will be swiftly south, not north.

Scotland aren’t guaranteed EU membership and even if they somehow convinced the EU, they would be forced to enact a stern austerity, as Croatia were made to, to get their deficit-GDP down to 3%.

It’ll likely be 12%+ by the time they push for that, possibly much more.

Even with EU granting them membership, they will be relying on England granting them a significant transition period that favours them over us.

That’s not even moving on to the border and MFN.

As I’ve said, it’ll make Brexit look like a stubbed toe, compared to blowing your foot off with a shotgun.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. I think that if there’s a will to make Scottish EU membership happen, a way will be worked out. The EU are well aware that there’s a significant pro-EU majority in Scotland which will figure in their decision.

 

[Saddleworth2]

In all fairness the Scottish don’t like the English, even my Scottish mate who lives in Stockport doesn’t.

I love (most) of the English. I lived there long enough

The short term economic reality for an independent Scotland would indeed be bleak but a longer term view of it based on Scottish EU membership and the migration of business from England to take advantage of Scotland’s EU membership is more difficult to say. There are millions of people living in England who were either born in Scotland or have recent Scottish ancestry that would be eligible for post independence Scottish citizenship. I suspect there will be quite a few of those that will head north with their businesses should Scotland achieve EU membership.

one of the problems in Scotland is slow growth in the population. Of course That is partially offset previously by migration from EU. An independent Scotland would seek to attract both ex pats back and immigration in an attempt to boost the economy.

 

[Ban-jani]

We’ll have to agree to disagree. I think that if there’s a will to make Scottish EU membership happen, a way will be worked out. The EU are well aware that there’s a significant pro-EU majority in Scotland which will figure in their decision.

We’ll have to.

It’s a possibility but unlikely but even if they do, years of austerity will have to be forced upon Scotland.

Im just surprised that someone so against Brexit has any sort of positive feeling at all, even if overall you don’t want it, to Scottish independence.

 

[Bovril]

We’ll have to agree to disagree. I think that if there’s a will to make Scottish EU membership happen, a way will be worked out. The EU are well aware that there’s a significant pro-EU majority in Scotland which will figure in their decision.

As there is in Catalonia exactly the same situation as Scotland, not convinced the Spanish will be easy to please, a whole can of worms to be opened.

 

[leithblue]

The “Spanish veto” is a bit of a myth, they’re really not arsed, all they’ve ever said is that Scotland would be treated as a new entrant and have to apply to join like any other non-EU nation

 

[west didsblue]

We’ll have to.

It’s a possibility but unlikely but even if they do, years of austerity will have to be forced upon Scotland.

Im just surprised that someone so against Brexit has any sort of positive feeling at all, even if overall you don’t want it, to Scottish independence.

I was dead set against Scottish independence in 2014 for most of the reasons you have said but mostly because I think of the UK as one country with a shared history and would be sad to see its balkanisation.

One of the main remain arguments at the time was continued single market access within a customs union and now that’s going it’s only fair to find out if that was the deciding factor.

 

[Ban-jani]

I was dead set against Scottish independence in 2014 for most of the reasons you have said but mostly because I think of the UK as one country with a shared history and would be sad to see its balkanisation.

One of the main remain arguments at the time was continued single market access within a customs union and now that’s going it’s only fair to find out if that was the deciding factor.

If Scotland goes I don’t see much point of a continued UK.

I want an English independence referendum the same year as a vote for Scotland to leave.

 

[west didsblue]

If Scotland goes I don’t see much point of a continued UK.

I want an English independence referendum the same year as a vote for Scotland to leave.

If Scotland goes so will Ireland. An English independence vote would be irrelevant unless you find the Welsh really annoying.

 

[Ban-jani]

If Scotland goes so will Ireland. An English independence vote would be irrelevant unless you find the Welsh really annoying.

I do.

haha

In all seriousness I just see it as being you might as well rip the whole plaster off and we’ll move forward with our own English identity.

 

[BobKowalski]

We’ll have to agree to disagree. I think that if there’s a will to make Scottish EU membership happen, a way will be worked out. The EU are well aware that there’s a significant pro-EU majority in Scotland which will figure in their decision.

Agreed. The driving factor for the EU on Scottish membership will be political not economic. An isolated England surrounded by EU countries or countries plugged into the EU economic system isn’t viable.

 

[west didsblue]

Agreed. The driving factor for the EU on Scottish membership will be political not economic. An isolated England surrounded by EU countries or countries plugged into the EU economic system isn’t viable.

Scotland is a small enough country for the EU to take an initial hit to get it within EU debt constraints. When you look at the bailouts of the PIGS economies, sorting out Scotland would be a piece of piss by comparison.