ganganvince
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 23 Oct 2014
- Messages
- 6,681
Just listening to the Scottish briefing and University fees came up wondered if free education for students from EU states still happens.
So it is as you described. Labour, Tory and Lib Dem pretty much irrelevant at present. Nicki will have more problems with her own party than the others. I'm not sure how the Salmon stuff will unravel. Whist he was found not guilty, he is by no means faultless. He is a pretty unlikeable individual and is one of the main reasons the nats get the reputation as being anti english (he certainly was and didn't try that hard to hide it). Imo Nicola is a far more capable politician. She will also come under pressure from the party regarding the timing of indy ref 2 (there is a faction that believes she is not fast enough). Whatever, right now she has pretty high credibility and poll ratings through her handling of COVID, despite the fact that their were similar issues with timing of lockdown, PPE and care homes. Her communication with the Scottish people has been clear, consistent and adult.I was hoping this would be a thread where mature discussion would take place. Makes me ashamed to have born in this country. The past couple of years huge political shift even more so.
I was looking for some insight and understanding on what's going on up there rather than the spoon fed media and social media bollocks.
That’s pretty much my position. Last vote I voted no, and would say I was 60/40 no, the EU being a big reason. Brexit made me pretty much 50/50 but would have liked to see a soft brexit and would still have voted no. Johnson, his approach to Brexit , and his performance since he came back from his own illness not to mention yesterday would be 60 / 40 Yes if we had a referendum tomorrow.So it is as you described. Labour, Tory and Lib Dem pretty much irrelevant at present. Nicki will have more problems with her own party than the others. I'm not sure how the Salmon stuff will unravel. Whist he was found not guilty, he is by no means faultless. He is a pretty unlikeable individual and is one of the main reasons the nats get the reputation as being anti english (he certainly was and didn't try that hard to hide it). Imo Nicola is a far more capable politician. She will also come under pressure from the party regarding the timing of indy ref 2 (there is a faction that believes she is not fast enough). Whatever, right now she has pretty high credibility and poll ratings through her handling of COVID, despite the fact that their were similar issues with timing of lockdown, PPE and care homes. Her communication with the Scottish people has been clear, consistent and adult.
So I think if there are Scottish elections next year, SNP will show a very strong performance which shouldn't be seen particularly as a mandate for indy ref 2 (but will be) but that they are the preferred party of government in Scotland despite a pretty shoddy performance in the last parliamentary session (Education in particular).
In terms of independence. Its very much about head and heart. On the heart side, Johnson has ensured that even former tory voting centralists like me would vote for independence just to get away from his dishonest and corrupt government. A great deal of people who voted no last time would be thinking very seriously about it now.
However, and it is huge however, set against that is the fact that many scots will want to see the independence proposals. The practical stuff. Financial, Currency, Central Bank, the overall plan, the relationship with Europe, the relationship with the remainder of the UK. Some extremely meaty stuff in there. I have had a number of sensible discussions about independence on here, so not everyone looks at this in an unintelligent way. Some of those that I have conversed with previously underestimate the damage that this Tory party has inflicted on the Union. Another two years of Johnson and his sycophants may just seal the deal. Many of us would pay through the nose just to be free of his politics.
Stand back and wait for the flame throwers ;-)
Still a long way to go imo mate. The virus has knocked seven bells out of the Scottish economy so that is unhelpful to say the least. The case still has to be made and I am not certain that the EU would welcome us back with open arms unless we can demonstrate a viable economy (albeit we cant be any worse than Italy and Spain ;-)). The practical detail of currency, fiscal governance and central bank needs to be worked through as does the divorce detail from the UK. Bloody chunky stuff. On the plus side, I think there is a greater support for making it work than there was the first time round and a realisation that sacrifices will need to be made. We have also become leading country in Europe for renewable energy.The vote no campaign was a massively funded campaign of fear, which worked. However the lies are now evident, we are now out of Europe, which Scotland clearly has no interest in leaving. This was one of the primary focus points for vote no. Targeting pensions and false claims of financial ruin have all but been debunked since. This leaves quite a number of people who are angry at voting for one thing and getting the complete opposite.
There is a bit of me that wonders whether the EU/European leaders would welcome Scotland as a final 'fuck you' to Westminster. Of course there is no certainty that Scotland will even be 'allowed' to hold a further referendum in the term of this Tory government.Hard to see how a further five to ten years of economic hardship are going to help heal the divisions. The circumstances after 2014 changed fundamentally with Brexit, and the circumstances after Brexit have changed fundamentally, too, but whichever Union its people favours, Scotland is going to be extremely weak and dependent on either Westminster or Brussels for the foreseeable future. Both of those places, however, have enormous problems on their plates already, which as we’ve seen before often leads to them taking their eyes off ‘side’ issues and then acting surprised when problems arise.
There is a bit of me that wonders whether the EU/European leaders would welcome Scotland as a final 'fuck you' to Westminster. Of course there is no certainty that Scotland will even be 'allowed' to hold a further referendum in the term of this Tory government.
Time to start banging on about indy vote 3 to distract from that I'd have thought?Sturgeon is presiding over the worse care home deaths in Britain.
More deaths in homes than hospitals.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52906828
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...ths-coronavirus-SNP-Sky-News-interview-latest