The Scottish Politics thread

[BobKowalski]

…The SNP have barely attempted to tackle these issues, and so if people are still willing to back their push for independence, it suggests a level of partisan support and a suspension of critical thought.

No difference to Brexit. No one on the Brexit side gave any real thought to the future trading relationship with Europe, the Irish border question which has led to the UK imposing a customs border within our own borders, the cost of trade barriers which has impacted small business especially and at this crucial time in European affairs we are on the outside looking in when it comes to deciding the direction of the EU.

A suspension of critical thought that is looking increasingly worse with the passing of time.

 

[blueparrot]

It’s not really prejudice to identify the glaring holes in the independence argument, or indeed to highlight how the SNP have failed to address them.

Matters such as monetary policy arrangements, the lender of last resort, assuming the fair share of UK debt, the need for what would be practically unprecedented austerity to comply with the convergence criteria and that’s before we even consider the additional, formidable difficulties presented by the rest of the UK being outside of the customs union and single market.

The SNP have barely attempted to tackle these issues, and so if people are still willing to back their push for independence, it suggests a level of partisan support and a suspension of critical thought.

Or just different thought to yours. As support for independence is at 50% and SNP support is at about 36% it suggests support for independence isn't a one party issue and not every SNP voter will be an independence supporter.
You can suggest anyone supporting independence shows a lack of critical thought but that says more about yourself than 50% of Scots.Think you have a very blinkered view of a quite complicated relationship between Scots, SNP , and the independence debate.

 

[Saddleworth2]

It’s not really prejudice to identify the glaring holes in the independence argument, or indeed to highlight how the SNP have failed to address them.

Matters such as monetary policy arrangements, the lender of last resort, assuming the fair share of UK debt, the need for what would be practically unprecedented austerity to comply with the convergence criteria and that’s before we even consider the additional, formidable difficulties presented by the rest of the UK being outside of the customs union and single market.

The SNP have barely attempted to tackle these issues, and so if people are still willing to back their push for independence, it suggests a level of partisan support and a suspension of critical thought.

No quite true that they have barely been addressed. The link below takes you to a series of papers produced last year on different aspects of independence. They don't nail everything by any means but they didn't set out to achieve that. How could they without significant discussion with UK? They do represent quite a bit of thought though. Certainly more than went into Brexit. So let me know by reference to these documents where you think the glaring holes are.

Independence: what you need to know

Information about Scotland's future.

www.gov.scot

 

[Brewster's millions]

Or just different thought to yours. As support for independence is at 50% and SNP support is at about 36% it suggests support for independence isn't a one party issue and not every SNP voter will be an independence supporter.
You can suggest anyone supporting independence shows a lack of critical thought but that says more about yourself than 50% of Scots.Think you have a very blinkered view of a quite complicated relationship between Scots, SNP , and the independence debate.

I can assure you that I’m more than aware of the economic difficulties surrounding independence and the continued failure - outright refusal in fact - of the SNP to address them.

I also very much doubt that 50% of voters genuinely support independence- it’s all very well saying yes in an opinion poll, but when it comes down to it the level of support will be appreciably lower.

 

[blueparrot]

I can assure you that I’m more than aware of the economic difficulties surrounding independence and the continued failure - outright refusal in fact - of the SNP to address them.

I also very much doubt that 50% of voters genuinely support independence- it’s all very well saying yes in an opinion poll, but when it comes down to it the level of support will be appreciably lower.

You think.

 

[Brewster's millions]

No quite true that they have barely been addressed. The link below takes you to a series of papers produced last year on different aspects of independence. They don't nail everything by any means but they didn't set out to achieve that. How could they without significant discussion with UK? They do represent quite a bit of thought though. Certainly more than went into Brexit. So let me know by reference to these documents where you think the glaring holes are.

Independence: what you need to know

Information about Scotland's future.

www.gov.scot

Well the currency is an obvious one - still using the pound for an indeterminate period, with no control over monetary policy and no true powers as lender of last resort or broader liquidity provision.

A glaring hole if ever there was one, and perhaps why the SNP used a PR bloke to write up their economic policy rather than an economist.

 

[Brewster's millions]

No difference to Brexit. No one on the Brexit side gave any real thought to the future trading relationship with Europe, the Irish border question which has led to the UK imposing a customs border within our own borders, the cost of trade barriers which has impacted small business especially and at this crucial time in European affairs we are on the outside looking in when it comes to deciding the direction of the EU.

A suspension of critical thought that is looking increasingly worse with the passing of time.

Completely agree with you - a retrograde step if ever there was one.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Well the currency is an obvious one - still using the pound for an indeterminate period, with no control over monetary policy and no true powers as lender of last resort or broader liquidity provision.

A glaring hole if ever there was one, and perhaps why the SNP used a PR bloke to write up their economic policy rather than an economist.

No one person wrote these papers mate. But you know that. There are far more august analysis of that strategy that detail the pros and cons than you and I will discuss on here. I certainly recognise some of the downsides as well as the advantages and an 'interim' period could well be a lengthy one which as you say would constrain the ability to borrow probably to short term debt albeit there would be nothing stopping the BoE lending if that was in the interests of the UK. Independence comes with significant risks, many of them financial but so does the status quo.

I'm on record as saying I don't believe that the SNP have the capability of delivering such a complex project but neither do I believe that those that support independence have suspended critical thought. I also believe that more thought has gone into this than was applied to Brexit which is one reason why so many Scots remain very cynical about the future prospects of UK.

 

[BobKowalski]

Completely agree with you - a retrograde step if ever there was one.

I booked this slot for a 5 minute argument. I’m kind of feeling let down here.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I booked this slot for a 5 minute argument. I’m kind of feeling let down here.

There is one fundamental difference between independence and Brexit. The Uk always had sovereignty. Scotland doesn’t.