The Scottish Politics thread

[Magicpole]

whilst I might agree with your sentiments, forget the BBC, Tories etc, do you think JS is doing a good or bad job?

I was speaking to a lecturer yesterday who was explaining why the system is as it is. It isn't new. She said it is usually accurate and although there are anomalies in it, it's been decided by educationalists that it is as yet the best we have. She also predicted that England would return worse figures and that the furore could only be explained by a political motivation.

Swinney is in a difficult place. It's not him who comes up with the diagnostic system. It has been used and been accurate for years. So, when a situation unprecedented presents itself, we go with what we had. Was this a great idea? Probably not, but, you have to look at it now from the perspective of where we are. This situation is not of Swinneys making. For days the Tories here have been calling for his head, today, they are deleting tweets to that effect.

I dont give a free pass to Swinney, but I dont ignore the context and putting him as the cause was nothing short of a politically motivated assault in light of the opinion polls showing 54% for Indy. The BBC went in with a full frontal politically motivated attack, yet today, that vitriolic approach is missing.

Now we get the deflection. The rummaging about for justification to continue the assault by talking bollocks about other issues. It's the Education dept who devise these models. If that has to change then fine. To scapegoat him is utter bollocks. And I will only accept that when the same tartan Tory wankers demand his English counterpart is beheaded too. Don't hold your breath for that.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Firstly, I haven't said I feel hard done by around finance, never have.
Secondly, you refuse to engage in any debate about why Scotland gets more. It's very difficult to debate with someone who simply says 'it isnt' fair and can't or wont engage in any discussion about why the expenditure provisions in every single region of the UK are different. So I'm still here and happy to debate as long as you do.
And for what it is worth, I think that the main problem with the UK is its run out of London. Most English regions get a shitty deal and I have every sympathy for them. A decentralised government might still save the UK as an entity.

Saddleworth I never said you personally felt hard done by finance. I fell many Scots come across as they get a rough deal from the UK government when clearly that isn't the case.

Why should I debate something I feel is grossly disproportionate. And results in such disparity between parts of the UK. Such as free higher education, free care for the elderly, prescriptions car parking in NHS hospitals. For me it's a no brainer.

The UKs wealth should be distributed evenly on a needs basis so if a person in Inverness needs cancer care she gets the same treatment options as a person in Cardiff or Belfast. If a family from Manchester with three children want to send their kids to university, those kids shoudl leave University with the same oportunitunites and debt as those from a family from Dundee. This is not rocket science it's what I firmly believe most people want out of any society. There is simply no reason for me to debate this. For example Its a similar situation to you coming back to me and trying to justify the existence of an unelected house of Lords. I am so opposed to the house of Lords in its current guise. It would be a pointless debate. Cheers

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

I was speaking to a lecturer yesterday who was explaining why the system is as it is. It isn't new. She said it is usually accurate and although there are anomalies in it, it's been decided by educationalists that it is as yet the best we have. She also predicted that England would return worse figures and that the furore could only be explained by a political motivation.

Swinney is in a difficult place. It's not him who comes up with the diagnostic system. It has been used and been accurate for years. So, when a situation unprecedented presents itself, we go with what we had. Was this a great idea? Probably not, but, you have to look at it now from the perspective of where we are. This situation is not of Swinneys making. For days the Tories here have been calling for his head, today, they are deleting tweets to that effect.

I dont give a free pass to Swinney, but I dont ignore the context and putting him as the cause was nothing short of a politically motivated assault in light of the opinion polls showing 54% for Indy. The BBC went in with a full frontal politically motivated attack, yet today, that vitriolic approach is missing.

Now we get the deflection. The rummaging about for justification to continue the assault by talking bollocks about other issues. It's the Education dept who devise these models. If that has to change then fine. To scapegoat him is utter bollocks. And I will only accept that when the same tartan Tory wankers demand his English counterpart is beheaded too. Don't hold your breath for that.

Of course its the UK government and the English based BBC that are at fault for swinneys ineptitude. Lol.

You really aso quote straight out of Alex Salmonds SNP leadership book don't uou Magic.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I was speaking to a lecturer yesterday who was explaining why the system is as it is. It isn't new. She said it is usually accurate and although there are anomalies in it, it's been decided by educationalists that it is as yet the best we have. She also predicted that England would return worse figures and that the furore could only be explained by a political motivation.

Swinney is in a difficult place. It's not him who comes up with the diagnostic system. It has been used and been accurate for years. So, when a situation unprecedented presents itself, we go with what we had. Was this a great idea? Probably not, but, you have to look at it now from the perspective of where we are. This situation is not of Swinneys making. For days the Tories here have been calling for his head, today, they are deleting tweets to that effect.

I dont give a free pass to Swinney, but I dont ignore the context and putting him as the cause was nothing short of a politically motivated assault in light of the opinion polls showing 54% for Indy. The BBC went in with a full frontal politically motivated attack, yet today, that vitriolic approach is missing.

Now we get the deflection. The rummaging about for justification to continue the assault by talking bollocks about other issues. It's the Education dept who devise these models. If that has to change then fine. To scapegoat him is utter bollocks. And I will only accept that when the same tartan Tory wankers demand his English counterpart is beheaded too. Don't hold your breath for that.

Where I am coming from is this:

The Scottish education system rating internationally has been dropping for the last 10 years. Not something you can lay entirely at Swinney's door but he is the boy in place at the moment.
He was also caught with his pants down as part of the shelving of the eduction bill in 2018. That was a fairly important manifesto item if I remember.
I get some feedback from my daughters best mate who is an assistant head at a large secondary school and its not particularly good.


Now we have this week. A bloody difficult situation where if I understand correctly, teachers estimates of grades were significantly above the norm in general and by economic background specifically. To go with those estimates would mean this years guys and gals had the best results in history against the background of total eduction disruption so they adjusted them downwards on the basis that anyone with a decent case would have success through the appeals system. Nicola presented all this with clarity and no little detail earlier this week.

Then the media and social media whip up a shitstorm and they completely and (wrongly in my view) u turn. So if Swinney was supportive of the initial revision of grade estimates, then why the fuck the U turn? Was the logic wrong or was it just a cave in to pressure?
And mate. If thats all it takes for the government to u turn then that worries the fuck out of me as we have far greater challenges in the months and years ahead. So that is why I am pissed off big time with JS. In my view he has let his leader down and undermined their hard won reputation for competence. He should go and I am not basing my opinions on tory fucking media.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Saddleworth I never said you personally felt hard done by finance. I fell many Scots come across as they get a rough deal from the UK government when clearly that isn't the case.

Why should I debate something I feel is grossly disproportionate. And results in such disparity between parts of the UK. Such as free higher education, free care for the elderly, prescriptions car parking in NHS hospitals. For me it's a no brainer.

The UKs wealth should be distributed evenly on a needs basis so if a person in Inverness needs cancer care she gets the same treatment options as a person in Cardiff or Belfast. If a family from Manchester with three children want to send their kids to university, those kids shoudl leave University with the same oportunitunites and debt as those from a family from Dundee. This is not rocket science it's what I firmly believe most people want out of any society. There is simply no reason for me to debate this. For example Its a similar situation to you coming back to me and trying to justify the existence of an unelected house of Lords. I am so opposed to the house of Lords in its current guise. It would be a pointless debate. Cheers

Ok.
But at least what you have written helps me understand what has up until now been in your head :-)
I have no issues at all with what you describe but the reality of devolved parliaments in the UK mean that those governments will have different priorities and will largely be driven by what the electorate vote for. Thats why you have the bloody tories and we have an imperfect centre left party that want to prioritise spending in a different way to westminster. You are making the natural connection between Scotland having more spend per person than England and as a result being able to afford free prescriptions and bus passes but I don't believe that is a correct conclusion for the reasons I have outlined a couple of times. Its just that we have prioritised these things over others.

I genuinely think their is something fundamentally wrong with politics in the UK. Does it feel to you that you are benefiting from the economy of one of the richest nations on the planet? Do our pensions reflect that? Does our infrastructure? our roads, our rail network? our support services to those that most need it?
I wish the whole of England had free presciptions and free bus travel for the over 60's. The westminster government can afford to provide it. They choose not to.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Ok.
But at least what you have written helps me understand what has up until now been in your head :-)
I have no issues at all with what you describe but the reality of devolved parliaments in the UK mean that those governments will have different priorities and will largely be driven by what the electorate vote for. Thats why you have the bloody tories and we have an imperfect centre left party that want to prioritise spending in a different way to westminster. You are making the natural connection between Scotland having more spend per person than England and as a result being able to afford free prescriptions and bus passes but I don't believe that is a correct conclusion for the reasons I have outlined a couple of times. Its just that we have prioritised these things over others.

I genuinely think their is something fundamentally wrong with politics in the UK. Does it feel to you that you are benefiting from the economy of one of the richest nations on the planet? Do our pensions reflect that? Does our infrastructure? our roads, our rail network? our support services to those that most need it?
I wish the whole of England had free presciptions and free bus travel for the over 60's. The westminster government can afford to provide it. They choose not to.

So you don't think the higher level of money allocated to Scotland per head has an influence on the ability of the Scottish government to provide better levels of service to its people regardless of their priorities. I would says it pretty certain it does. Ive been arround the block enough to know we have successively poor governments and sadly my expectations are low.

 

[Saddleworth2]

So you don't think the higher level of money allocated to Scotland per head has an influence on the ability of the Scottish government to provide better levels of service to its people regardless of their priorities. I would says it pretty certain it does. Ive been arround the block enough to know we have successively poor governments and sadly my expectations are low.

no. I think it has different priorities and a different public service model to fund. Hence the larger per head grant. I do respect your right to think differently though.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

no. I think it has different priorities and a different public service model to fund. Hence the larger per head grant. I do respect your right to think differently though.

If we went out for a meal together, I get the distinct impression that I could have starter and a main for £20 and you would have a starter a main and a desert for £25 and then sit there and tell me yours cost exactly the same as it was just your choice and we should just go Dutch. Have a good evening.

 

[Saddleworth2]

If we went out for a meal together, I get the distinct impression that I could have starter and a main for £20 and you would have a starter a main and a desert for £25 and then sit there and tell me yours cost exactly the same as it was just your choice and we should just go Dutch. Have a good evening.

You too mate.

 

[bluethrunthru]

I am no fan of John Swinney but ...oh dear......