The Scottish Politics thread

[Saddleworth2]

Even though Sturgeon is unfit for office and should resign I just don't see the snp as having a competent replacement - maybe Blackford? She's still the best / most credible option as far as I can see.

Unfit for office?
explain that rationale.

 

[Saddleworth2]

She's a lawyer, she acted on legal advice until that legal advice changed. She wasn't prosecuting the case. Those who were have questions to answer. She was very clear about the chronology of events. The charge thst she broke the ministerial cidecwas shown to be horseshit. Everybody knows you onky get a free run at doing that if you're a Tory. The BBC handling of this shows their hand. A Tory minister broke the law and ministerial codeaccirding to the High Court, nothing to see, a trumped up pile of shit against Sturgeon and it's full on witch hunt on every broadcast. This whole shameful exercise has backfired in its objective and only proved that the Project Fear won't work this time. Well done Nicola. The most effective leader on the Island. And not a lying ****.

And yet a queue of folk on her to spout bile. If it wasn’t so fucking sad it would be funny.

 

[Magicpole]

Even though Sturgeon is unfit for office and should resign I just don't see the snp as having a competent replacement - maybe Blackford? She's still the best / most credible option as far as I can see.

How the fuck can she be unfit for office? How can a leader who has won every election, has the highest approval rating of any politician in the UK, has handled the covid situation much better. She has integrity and we know that. Regardless how the media try to paint her. In fact all they do is reinforce how good she is. And that's all that matters.

 

[Magicpole]

And yet a queue of folk on her to spout bile. If it wasn’t so fucking sad it would be funny.

They believe the shit. That's why the Tories keep winning in England. They fail to see we have voted them in for the last ten years and will again. The same media thst destroyed Corbyn will and has failed with Sturgeon because we aren't so fucking stupid to believe their bias. And it is fucking stupidity to convince working class people to vote against their interests. It isn't helped that Starmer is a Tory plant and even in this shit show is still behind in the polls, because he has failed to take them on. His Branch office up here are in the crosshairs once again to get shot in the face. They never fucking learn.

 

[Coatigan]

They believe the shit. That's why the Tories keep winning in England. They fail to see we have voted them in for the last ten years and will again. The same media thst destroyed Corbyn will and has failed with Sturgeon because we aren't so fucking stupid to believe their bias. And it is fucking stupidity to convince working class people to vote against their interests. It isn't helped that Starmer is a Tory plant and even in this shit show is still behind in the polls, because he has failed to take them on. His Branch office up here are in the crosshairs once again to get shot in the face. They never fucking learn.

And you know what the biggest bloody Irony of that is? It is the tory/unioinist parties and media outlets that back them are the ones that seem to keep the independence 'movement' growing.

I personally think without these bullish attempt to 'kill it' every chance they get, it may well have long fizzled out on its own by now. It was polling at only 15% when the referendum was firat announced. Grew to a maximun of 45% for the actual result, and the day after, fuel on fire. Same again 2016, and 17, and 18 and 19. And i dare say this little dust raising excersise will turn out to further embolden any drive.[/QUOTE]

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

How the fuck can she be unfit for office? How can a leader who has won every election, has the highest approval rating of any politician in the UK, has handled the covid situation much better. She has integrity and we know that. Regardless how the media try to paint her. In fact all they do is reinforce how good she is. And that's all that matters.

Only unfit in the Priti Patel sense, so no need to resign I suppose.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

And you know what the biggest bloody Irony of that is? It is the tory/unioinist parties and media outlets that back them are the ones that seem to keep the independence 'movement' growing.

I personally think without these bullish attempt to 'kill it' every chance they get, it may well have long fizzled out on its own by now. It was polling at only 15% when the referendum was firat announced. Grew to a maximun of 45% for the actual result, and the day after, fuel on fire. Same again 2016, and 17, and 18 and 19. And i dare say this little dust raising excersise will turn out to further embolden any drive.

[/QUOTE]
Spot on with that. Nothing makes folk more pissed off than being told their opinion is stupid or they can't have something - and as you say counterproductive.

 

[Saddleworth2]

And you know what the biggest bloody Irony of that is? It is the tory/unioinist parties and media outlets that back them are the ones that seem to keep the independence 'movement' growing.

I personally think without these bullish attempt to 'kill it' every chance they get, it may well have long fizzled out on its own by now. It was polling at only 15% when the referendum was firat announced. Grew to a maximun of 45% for the actual result, and the day after, fuel on fire. Same again 2016, and 17, and 18 and 19. And i dare say this little dust raising excersise will turn out to further embolden any drive.

[/QUOTE]
There is a fundamental schism between Scotland and England that will exist until our politics are far more aligned. England votes Conservative, Scotland never will. It’s as fundamental as that and every year the Tories are in Westminster brings independence a year closer. They can’t change what they are and it’s what they are that is driving independence.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Looking at it impartially, I don’t know if Salmond is guilty or not but get the impression from him that he is not particularly a nice man.
Looking at Sturgeon, I know it’s not the same thing but see her as an impressive politician in the same way I see MaryLou McDonald as an impressive politician regardless of the fact that I couldn’t vote for her.
She is a very good orator and comes across very well.

I do think the media treatment of this situation is noticeably different from more serious issues in UK life and it does stink of agenda.

However I really don’t know enough of the ins and outs of the case to say what’s right.

What I have noticed in here though is that those who are prepared to have her pilloried are mainly from south of the border and there seems to be a unification of opinion amongst our Scottish contributors regarding her worth and the SNP in general.

I find that telling In itself.
The upcoming elections will be interesting, to me anyway.

 

[Magicpole]

And you know what the biggest bloody Irony of that is? It is the tory/unioinist parties and media outlets that back them are the ones that seem to keep the independence 'movement' growing.

I personally think without these bullish attempt to 'kill it' every chance they get, it may well have long fizzled out on its own by now. It was polling at only 15% when the referendum was firat announced. Grew to a maximun of 45% for the actual result, and the day after, fuel on fire. Same again 2016, and 17, and 18 and 19. And i dare say this little dust raising excersise will turn out to further embolden any drive.

[/QUOTE]
Scotland hasn't voted Tory in a majority for 70 years, yet we have endured the bastards for the majority of that time. I was once a member of Labour and never wanted Indy. When it became apparent England would always vote them in I changed my mind. Many like me now vote SNP for this reason. We are now out of Europe against our will too. English people have every right to vote Tory, but equally we don't deserve to be ruled by a party we hate. Why is that so difficult to grasp? Why do some think we just need to accept being run by a party we don't vote for? Democracy dictates that people should get the party they vote for. We never do. That can only change if and when we go it alone?

 

[Saddleworth2]

Only unfit in the Priti Patel sense, so no need to resign I suppose.

What sense is that? I’m not aware Sturgeon has been found guilty of anything.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Looking at it impartially, I don’t know if Salmond is guilty or not but get the impression from him that he is not particularly a nice man.
Looking at Sturgeon, I know it’s not the same thing but see her as an impressive politician in the same way I see MaryLou McDonald as an impressive politician regardless of the fact that I couldn’t vote for her.
She is a very good orator and comes across very well.

I do think the media treatment of this situation is noticeably different from more serious issues in UK life and it does stink of agenda.

However I really don’t know enough of the ins and outs of the case to say what’s right.

What I have noticed in here though is that those who are prepared to have her pilloried are mainly from south of the border and there seems to be a unification of opinion amongst our Scottish contributors regarding her worth and the SNP in general.

I find that telling In itself.
The upcoming elections will be interesting, to me anyway.

Salmond is not a nice man. I could say a deal more but this is a public forum. he is however an incredibly astute politician and orator. Sturgeon is the same in terms of capability and communication but for me, has a much greater grasp of detail and shows a great deal more humility empathy and compassion. Her handling of the pandemic has undoubtedly won her a great deal of respect in Scotland from a broad base of political views.

in terms of what has been going on, there are so many angles to this story. The Scottish Government caught up in the ‘me too’ movement trying to put in place new sex harassment processes in parallel to dealing with complaints against Salmond. The relationship between Salmond and Sturgeon, described by her as one of the most important in her life. Friend, mentor, confidant. The pressures on her as First Minister to ensure the complaints are treated correctly and lawfully and at the same time watching that relationship crash and burn because of her refusal to intercede. All the while, every hour of the day, dealing with the pandemic. According to her testimony, she deliberately distanced herself as far as possible from the investigation of the complaints although clearly from an oversight perspective she is involved.

The main charges against her are that she mislead parliament as to when she first heard of the complaints against Salmond. She says she forgot a previous brief meeting. That is what she is being asked to resign about. The committee investigating the matter is trying to paint her as culpable for everything that has gone wrong, the collapse of the case, the mistakes the service made in progressing the original complaints. Most of this is being generated by th3 Tory members of the committee. No shit Sherlock!

has she made mistakes. Yes. Should she resign? Not in a millennium..

 

[blueparrot]

Salmond is not a nice man. I could say a deal more but this is a public forum. he is however an incredibly astute politician and orator. Sturgeon is the same in terms of capability and communication but for me, has a much greater grasp of detail and shows a great deal more humility empathy and compassion. Her handling of the pandemic has undoubtedly won her a great deal of respect in Scotland from a broad base of political views.

in terms of what has been going on, there are so many angles to this story. The Scottish Government caught up in the ‘me too’ movement trying to put in place new sex harassment processes in parallel to dealing with complaints against Salmond. The relationship between Salmond and Sturgeon, described by her as one of the most important in her life. Friend, mentor, confidant. The pressures on her as First Minister to ensure the complaints are treated correctly and lawfully and at the same time watching that relationship crash and burn because of her refusal to intercede. All the while, every hour of the day, dealing with the pandemic. According to her testimony, she deliberately distanced herself as far as possible from the investigation of the complaints although clearly from an oversight perspective she is involved.

The main charges against her are that she mislead parliament as to when she first heard of the complaints against Salmond. She says she forgot a previous brief meeting. That is what she is being asked to resign about. The committee investigating the matter is trying to paint her as culpable for everything that has gone wrong, the collapse of the case, the mistakes the service made in progressing the original complaints. Most of this is being generated by th3 Tory members of the committee. No shit Sherlock!

has she made mistakes. Yes. Should she resign? Not in a millennium..

Think this is being clouded somewhat by being so close to the election. With opposition parties so far behind in the polls they are scratching around for anything to impact on that lead. The anti SNP papers, like he mail and express. and as you say the tories are clutching at anything they can from this and those on the commitee politicising it in a way they might not, if this was mid term and not weeks from a possible drubbing at the polls.

 

[Coatigan]

Spot on with that. Nothing makes folk more pissed off than being told their opinion is stupid or they can't have something - and as you say counterproductive.
[/QUOTE]

I was going to hint at that as a further example, but held off. Completely valid though.

 

[Magicpole]

Only unfit in the Priti Patel sense, so no need to resign I suppose.

Patel is a lying, horrible, compassionless utter bastard. If you equate them both you have been led by the nose. Do you think we woukd vote for a dirty bastard like Patel for 10 years? No we wouldn't, but England would and will continue to do so. Do you think we woukd vote for a party that gave their pals billions in illegal contracts? No, but England will. Do you not see a pattern where you believe the picture painted by a biased media, fearful of what she represents, and at the same time conning you the Tories aren't an utter fucking disaster? We know who the cunts are. They are the Tories and their now red Tory lapdog in Labour.

 

[Cassandra]

BBC quoting Mr Salmond's defence lawyer
"They recalled that Mr Salmond's lawyer, Gordon Jackson QC, had quoted Woman H and said his client "should have been a better man".
In her evidence to the court, Woman H had said: "I wish for my life the first minister was a better man and I was not here."
Mr Jackson told the jury: "If in some ways the former first minister had been a better man, I wouldn't be here, you wouldn't be here, none of us would be here."

Seems his defence team agree that he is not a nice man.

Maybe if he causes the SNP enough electoral harm he'll be invited to join Ruth and wear ermine?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

What sense is that? I’m not aware Sturgeon has been found guilty of anything.

She's innocent in the Priti sense, whereas Salmon is innocent /acquitted in the OJ Simpson sense.

 

[west didsblue]

Patel is a lying, horrible, compassionless utter bastard. If you equate them both you have been led by the nose. Do you think we woukd vote for a dirty bastard like Patel for 10 years? No we wouldn't, but England would and will continue to do so. Do you think we woukd vote for a party that gave their pals billions in illegal contracts? No, but England will. Do you not see a pattern where you believe the picture painted by a biased media, fearful of what she represents, and at the same time conning you the Tories aren't an utter fucking disaster? We know who the cunts are. They are the Tories and their now red Tory lapdog in Labour.

Don't beat about the bush. Say what you really think.

 

[Coatigan]

Salmond is not a nice man. I could say a deal more but this is a public forum. he is however an incredibly astute politician and orator. Sturgeon is the same in terms of capability and communication but for me, has a much greater grasp of detail and shows a great deal more humility empathy and compassion. Her handling of the pandemic has undoubtedly won her a great deal of respect in Scotland from a broad base of political views.

in terms of what has been going on, there are so many angles to this story. The Scottish Government caught up in the ‘me too’ movement trying to put in place new sex harassment processes in parallel to dealing with complaints against Salmond. The relationship between Salmond and Sturgeon, described by her as one of the most important in her life. Friend, mentor, confidant. The pressures on her as First Minister to ensure the complaints are treated correctly and lawfully and at the same time watching that relationship crash and burn because of her refusal to intercede. All the while, every hour of the day, dealing with the pandemic. According to her testimony, she deliberately distanced herself as far as possible from the investigation of the complaints although clearly from an oversight perspective she is involved.

The main charges against her are that she mislead parliament as to when she first heard of the complaints against Salmond. She says she forgot a previous brief meeting. That is what she is being asked to resign about. The committee investigating the matter is trying to paint her as culpable for everything that has gone wrong, the collapse of the case, the mistakes the service made in progressing the original complaints. Most of this is being generated by th3 Tory members of the committee. No shit Sherlock!

has she made mistakes. Yes. Should she resign? Not in a millennium..

Nail, head

 

[Saddleworth2]

She's innocent in the Priti sense, whereas Salmon is innocent /acquitted in the OJ Simpson sense.

Patel is many things and innocent is not one of them.