I agree with everything you’ve written on this subject. The dippers did bottle it and we were absolutely fucking magnificent. The two things are not mutually exclusive as some other posters are bizarrely implyingNever actually stated such a thing. But when you are being chased down throughout the season, and bottle it. I would say, the team that has the lead, is the one to point out first for bottling. It doesn’t take away anything from us really. But we have made quite the “thing” out of chasing for the win. Am I wrong?
I think the scousers dropped something like 8 points in the last 17 games, i.e. they won 43 points out of 51. How on Earth can that be called bottling it?I agree with everything you’ve written on this subject. The dippers did bottle it and we were absolutely fucking magnificent. The two things are not mutually exclusive as some other posters are bizarrely implying
Whether you stumble slightly or greatly, it’s still a stumble. The magnitude of a situation doesn’t deter from the finality of it. They had the lead, multiple times. They lost/drew and gave it away, now on numerous occasions. The term bottling although derogatory still applies. No, it does not reduce our incredible years fighting with them, nor the fighting spirit we have shown. And certainly it does not take away from our achievements.I think the scousers dropped something like 8 points in the last 17 games, i.e. they won 43 points out of 51. How on Earth can that be called bottling it?
Arsenal absolutely bottled it last season. Totally shat the bed. Liverpool manifestly did not.
My brother and I were having a chat at the Huddersfield game.It’ll go right down to wire with Liverpool I think
It’ll be extremely close but we’ll do it peps focus to seems to be the “ four in a row “ he’s talking more and more about this he thrives on first’s . Dare I say he might want this more than the champs league? I trust him to get us over the line , I hope this helps with the flappers on the cup draw thread after been drawn at spurs which I think we’ll walk away with a comfortable win. No blue tinted specs I just think this lot we have now are doing what they do best in finding results at the right time.
Serial winners once you win and taste it ,
Their’ll be back for more .
I agree with everything you’ve written on this subject. The dippers did bottle it and we were absolutely fucking magnificent. The two things are not mutually exclusive as some other posters are bizarrely implying
They drew 4 games of the last 17, 43 points out of 51. That is title winning form in any other season bar that one. On the back on 54 points from first 21 games. They’ve actually pretty much maintained the same pace. To call that “bottling it” it is insane.Whether you stumble slightly or greatly, it’s still a stumble. The magnitude of a situation doesn’t deter from the finality of it. They had the lead, multiple times. They lost/drew and gave it away, now on numerous occasions. The term bottling although derogatory still applies. No, it does not reduce our incredible years fighting with them, nor the fighting spirit we have shown. And certainly it does not take away from our achievements.
But to imply we have won only by our strength and not sometimes by being at the right place and the right time is childish and tribal at best. We are known for our late season form, and people expect us to pull 14-15 games on the trot, because, and hear me out here on this new ( not really ) piece of information, the whole club, psychology, physiology, stamina training and cyclic preparation is geared for it.
Villa game produced one of the all time greats at the Etihad, but we were 16 minutes away from watching them achieve the Quadruple. Never of the top of the table though on that day.
It has been a very long time now, that we have gained a league lead, retained and detached. Under Pep, i think we have done once or twice. And if we have won 5/6 more than half have been by chasing. If we achieve 6/7 which would be insane, it would be the same again.
100% the League for meMy brother and I were having a chat at the Huddersfield game.
What would you take if you got offered a Champions League and FA cup double OR 'only' retaining the league?
For both of us it was definitely retaining the league. Being the first team to win it four times in a row is arguably the greatest achievement in English football.
They drew 4 games of the last 17, 43 points out of 51. That is title winning form in any other season bar that one. On the back on 54 points from first 21 games. They’ve actually pretty much maintained the same pace. To call that “bottling it” it is insane.
It’s not “childish” and “tribal” to not agree that they bottled it. It’s just a fact, they didn’t.
Whereas, as I’ve already said, Arsenal absolutely 100% bottled it last season. The difference between the two seasons in terms of what happened with the teams we chased down is, and I’m gonna say it, massive.
I’d argue that they did, simply because they threw away a two goal lead when cruising in consecutive games and then only drew (luckily) with the bottom team at home.Arsenal didn't bottle it either, for (1) they weren't that good in the first place, and (2) after the injury of their best defender they were performing below their normal levels, which was to be expected.
You can't bottle it when you have overachieved. You can bottle it when you have the ability but lack the character. Arsenal didn't have the ability in the first place, they were lucky to win 50 pts in the first 19 games. After their luck was over, their results became mediocre, especially after Saliba's injury.
Apart from the two week break, the rest of the January schedule is very forgiving as a consequence of going out of the Carabao Cup early and avoiding an FA Cup replay. No midweek game until the last day of the month is a big help in lots of ways.After Newcastle we have two weeks in which to train hard on the systems and tactics Pep wants us to implement. Hopefully it's with a full complement of players, with Doku and De Bruyne now back and Haaland close to a return. Just Stones to come back and we're good to go. Those two weeks give Pep all the time he needs to get us mentally and physically ready for the business end of the season. Tactically he rarely gets a chance to do much more than a single session with the players because of recovery. He's going to have a couple of weeks to absolutely nail things and I'm sure that will see us kick on when we come back.
We have to win at Newcastle to keep the pressure on though.
I’d argue that they did, simply because they threw away a two goal lead when cruising in consecutive games and then only drew (luckily) with the bottom team at home.
They failed in those games partly because they started games with more energy than was sustainable. That is, they played out of their skins in the first halves, and then didn't have enough in the tank to win. Also, they lacked experience, which is another valuable quality for a team to have. Overall, they overachieved in the first 19 games, and reverted to type after that, especially after Saliba's injury. Good team, but not good enough over a whole season to win vs City.
Not good enough to win because they bottled it! Leicester weren't good enough to win the title but they had the mental strength and ability to go and get the job done. We got fewer points in the second half of last season than the first half, so that shows just how much they fell off the cliff. When we were down to the bare bones in 2021/22 our players stepped up and saw us over the line. There can always be excuses or mitigation, but people have to step up.
I've already addressed your point. You have to be good enough in the first place to bottle it. They weren't. They didn't fall off the cliff but fell to their normal levels, and below them after Saliba's injury. They were punching well above their weight in the 1st half of the season.
BTW, we won more pts in the 2nd half of the season than in the 1st.
We were on 45pts after 19 games and finished on 89pts.
And you haven't addressed the point, you've provided mitigation and excuses for them. What even is a "normal level". They invested in order to improve, had players to drive them forwards and started the season incredibly well. If you're suggesting all that happened is that they turned into 2020/21 Arsenal despite having several new players and a lot of improved players then that's nonsense.
What's City's "normal level"? The answer is, whatever it needs to be to compete and win the league. Whether that's by getting 100pts or 89pts is dependent on the quality of the opposition and often how hard we're pushed. It's a copout to suggest Arsenal just went back to being the Arsenal of old. They had to come to City and get a result and they bottled it and fell away. Obviously they weren't good enough to win the title, because they didn't. But they most certainly could have pushed us closer than they did. There are always mitigating factors but ultimately it comes down to mental strength as much as anything. And that's true for fans and players alike.
By your definition no one could ever bottle the league. They'd just have a bad few games or go back to their "normal level". Mentality in sport is a huge part of success and some simply don't have the bottle for it.
You think they had the quality to go to 90+ pts, but didn't only because they didn't have the mental strength to do it. Where's the evidence they had that quality, given that they have never won 90 pts since 2004 and given that they lost a key player like Saliba for months? Half a season doesn't provide sufficient evidence, sample isn't sufficiently big, not to mention it doesn't take into account Saliba's injury. In all other half-seasons, including this one, they were on course to well under 90 pts. They spent over 200m to improve the team last summer and are on course to 80 pts...
Basically, you claim they were good enough last season (quality wise) to beat to the title one of the best English teams ever, and the only thing that stopped them was lack of mental strength. OK...
If a team like City lead by 8 pts and lose the title, that may be considered a bottle job. And even City were close to that in 21/22, which shows this bottling it talk is largely bullshit.
2-0 up at Anfield drew 2-2. 2-0 up at West Ham drew 2-2. Went 3-1 down to Southampton at home before rescuing a draw then got battered by us. The best team wins the league, but Arsenal were architects of their own downfall. The pressure got to them and they bottled it. You don't have to be the best to bottle it, if you can see the finish and choke that is bottling it in my book. It's small time to say "well we just over achieved at the start of the season". That's what their fans would say to mask the pain.
We had a crocked Laporte and Ferny at CB in the run in in 21/22. We were fucked at the back. Could have been a great excuse for not winning the league, but the mentality of our manager and squad don't allow for excuses.