The Torino - Man City link....

sam221985 said:
Vienna_70 said:
I think it's, at least in part, because we are considered the second club in our respective cities.

Juventus get nearly as much OTT publicity as scum.

I always assumed it was just this too. Hence a lot of City fans (though not all) would probably naturally gravitate to Atletico instead of Real, 1860 Munchen instead of Bayern if uprooted to those cities.

Interestingly City will probably pick up a much larger nationwide support in the next decade. It will be interesting to see how this impacts on things. I don't think it will affect this preference for 'second' teams in European cities that City fans often have, not for a much longer time - too much of our fanbase, even those who are really young right now, will have grown up with the being the second most successful team in the city that bears the club's name for that.

But it will no doubt affects perceptions of us, people will start to see the Manchester rivalry as more of an equal AC-Inter type situation. It really wouldn't take much for a lot of people to start thinking like that, just a few titles and cups over the next decade, we wouldn't have to literally DRAW LEVEL by any means for it to happen.

Don't underestimate Torino, they're the 4th most successful club in Italian football history.

http://www.aboutaball.co.uk/aboutaball-historical-football-rankings/italy
 
danburge82 said:
sam221985 said:
I always assumed it was just this too. Hence a lot of City fans (though not all) would probably naturally gravitate to Atletico instead of Real, 1860 Munchen instead of Bayern if uprooted to those cities.

Interestingly City will probably pick up a much larger nationwide support in the next decade. It will be interesting to see how this impacts on things. I don't think it will affect this preference for 'second' teams in European cities that City fans often have, not for a much longer time - too much of our fanbase, even those who are really young right now, will have grown up with the being the second most successful team in the city that bears the club's name for that.

But it will no doubt affects perceptions of us, people will start to see the Manchester rivalry as more of an equal AC-Inter type situation. It really wouldn't take much for a lot of people to start thinking like that, just a few titles and cups over the next decade, we wouldn't have to literally DRAW LEVEL by any means for it to happen.

Don't underestimate Torino, they're the 4th most successful club in Italian football history. And before Inter's recent heavy success they were the 3rd most successful, ahead of Inter Roma Lazio Fiore and anyone else! Before Mancini went it Inter, only Milan and Juve had won more or than Torino!

Ahh true, just had a look at their honours and they've done a lot more than I thought. I knew they were once a successful side but assumed it was all in the very early days of Italian football.
 
Back in Francis Lee/Brian Horton's days a group of Torino supporters came to Manchester through Stockport College

I accompanied them on a tour of Maine Road where we all met Frannie in the board room and Brian in his office

Had a good chat with Bernard Halford, Tony Book and Gary Flitcroft as well amongst many others
 
Ducado said:
There is a poster on here (can't remember his name) who goes to watch Torino

"Questro sono le nostre CITTIA" Look out for the flag when we play Rubentus.If you want to see the piccy pms me amd I will send you a piccy of it hanging on Toro's Curva

-- Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:46 pm --

There is a light said:
This extract is from Wiki.. which means little I know.

Derby della Mole

Derby della Mole
Turin Derby

Derby della Mole, known in English as the Turin Derby is the local derby, played out between the city's two most successful teams, Juventus F.C. and Torino F.C.. The first being in 1906, there have been many since, mostly through Serie A fixtures but also the Coppa Italia and friendly matches.
In the stadium, Juventus fans usually shout out "Inferior!" and "Minors!" however Torino fans have been known to shout "Cheats!" and "Scum!" due to Juventus' match fixing allegations. Violence often breaks out on and off the pitch. In 1967 after a match that Torino won 4-0, incensed Juventus fans vandalized the grave of Gigi Meroni. This act only served to fuel the rivalry and hatred. In 2007/2008 there were riots before the match between hooligans and police with 40 arrests and 2 injured policemen. Rubbish bins were set on fire and many cars and shops vandalized as a result.
The Turin Derby has been compared to the Manchester derby in England. While Manchester United have large support from all over the world including England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales, Manchester City's support is almost entirely restricted to the city of Manchester and its surrounding area. In Turin, Torino has the biggest local following but Juventus draw support from all over Italy and all over Southern and Eastern Europe.

I wonder if Torino fans will be in attendance in December?
29e4uh0.jpg

Great photo...got any more?<br /><br />-- Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:49 pm --<br /><br />
There is a light said:
This extract is from Wiki.. which means little I know.

Derby della Mole

Derby della Mole
Turin Derby

Derby della Mole, known in English as the Turin Derby is the local derby, played out between the city's two most successful teams, Juventus F.C. and Torino F.C.. The first being in 1906, there have been many since, mostly through Serie A fixtures but also the Coppa Italia and friendly matches.
In the stadium, Juventus fans usually shout out "Inferior!" and "Minors!" however Torino fans have been known to shout "Cheats!" and "Scum!" due to Juventus' match fixing allegations. Violence often breaks out on and off the pitch. In 1967 after a match that Torino won 4-0, incensed Juventus fans vandalized the grave of Gigi Meroni. This act only served to fuel the rivalry and hatred. In 2007/2008 there were riots before the match between hooligans and police with 40 arrests and 2 injured policemen. Rubbish bins were set on fire and many cars and shops vandalized as a result.
The Turin Derby has been compared to the Manchester derby in England. While Manchester United have large support from all over the world including England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales, Manchester City's support is almost entirely restricted to the city of Manchester and its surrounding area. In Turin, Torino has the biggest local following but Juventus draw support from all over Italy and all over Southern and Eastern Europe.

I wonder if Torino fans will be in attendance in December?
29e4uh0.jpg


Great picture , got any more?
 
St Pauli in Hamburg, Sparta Rotterdam, Español in Barcelona and Cercle Bruges are all teams that I follow because of this "2nd club syndrome".

Incidentally, the Hamburg derby is tomorrow. St Pauli at home to City's feeder club :-D
 
citykev28 said:
Vienna_70 said:
St Pauli in Hamburg, Sparta Rotterdam, Español in Barcelona and Cercle Bruges are all teams that I follow because of this "2nd club syndrome".

Incidentally, the Hamburg derby is tomorrow. St Pauli at home to City's feeder club :-D

not forgetting atletico.

Of course, but they were mentioned earlier, along with 1860, so I didn't think I needed to mention them again.
 
Vienna_70 said:
citykev28 said:
not forgetting atletico.

Of course, but they were mentioned earlier, along with 1860, so I didn't think I needed to mention them again.

oops.my mistake. that flag HAS to make an appearance at both juve games. dooi remember seeing it at some city away's during the '90s?
 
I put this up recently on another thread so apologies to anyone who has already seen this.
But here's an article I wrote some time back concerning the Torino air crash....

On the 4th May 1949 a plane crashed into the cloudy peaks of the Superga mountain just outside of Turin. Of the thirty-one crew and passengers there were no survivors. Amongst the fatalities was Valerio Bacigalupo, a man known, with macabre irony, as 'the man with wings'. Another casualty was Ezio Loik, so solid and dependable he went by the nickname of 'the elephant'. Guglielmo 'il Barone' (the Baron) Gabetto also perished, along with his team-mate and good friend Eusebio Castigliano, who was widely and affectionately known as 'velvet leg' for his elegant playing style.
In purely footballing terms (and a tragedy of this scale renders such terms virtually irrelevant) perhaps the greatest sporting loss was a bullish thirty year old winger by the name of Valentino Mazzola. Undoubtedly one of the most gifted footballers of the 20th century and captain, and talisman, of the Grande Torino, Mazzola had everything. Sublime dribbling skills, an exquisite touch, adept in the air, and an all-round range of talents bestowed by an over-generous God. He could also, allegedly, jump higher than the crossbar from a standing start.
The plane was returning from Lisbon when bad weather and cruel fate intervened. Il Grande Torino, the finest club football side since the sport's inception, had been playing an exhibition match, parading their inventive skills and slick brilliance to an astonished Portuguese crowd. In fact, so in demand were they to showcase their talents abroad, the club president was toying with the idea of building two teams - one to compete in the domestic league, the other to undertake tours of international friendlies.

Guglielmo 'il Barone' Gabetto was the team's main striker, yet he disliked poaching easy goals.
'If it is not difficult, I am not interested in scoring'. Consequently, he only seemed to score from impossible angles, and each goal was seen by the fans as a 'little miracle'.

Every single player, every member of the coaching staff, every reserve, medic, kit man, and club director perished on the Superga peak. Bar one. A competent full-back named Saura Toma. Toma had injured his left knee in a match leading up to the fateful flight and doctors decreed that he stay home and rest, an arbitrary decision that saved his life. The following season he bravely represented Torino for a further fourteen games, surrounded by shell-shocked, unfamiliar youth players drafted in to replace their idols in a desperate, ultimately futile, attempt to rebuild the club from ashes. Toma dutifully did what he could before immense grief and guilt brought a promising career to a premature end.
His guilt was a uniquely personal anguish but the grief was shared by millions. The tragedy unleashed a tumultuous outpouring of emotion on a scale rarely before seen. Just four years earlier the already dead body of Mussolini swung in a Milan piazza. Prior to that came the devastating horrors of war. This was a nation hardened to life's extremities, yet the accident shook Italy to its marrow and its soul.
It is difficult to equate Il Grande Torino with any successful modern team, to form a clearer understanding as to just how good they were. To fully impact just how cataclysmic and monumental the disaster was. The 21st century Manchester United, even the celestial Real Madrid, do not come close to matching Torino's dominance and brilliance over an entire footballing era. Ten of their players were Italian national regulars. They had won the previous four Serie A titles at a canter and were on their way to clinching a fifth before the tragedy curtailed their wondrous adventure. Moreover, they perfectly captured the spirit of the times in post-war Italy, mirroring the fledgling optimism after the mighty fall of fascism and an oppressive political climate. Their celebratory, insouciant verve carried a significant cultural resonance with the people; to the beleaguered masses eleven players in burgundy shirts were validating a new democratic age every Sunday afternoon. Even their tactics reflected a cultural symmetry, a revolutionary W-M system, half-inched from Britain, and distrusted by other teams from the peninsula, it is, in its purest form, a 3-2-5 formation. That's right, FIVE attacking players.

At the player's funerals the fifth successive Scudetto was accorded to the club even though four fixtures remained. After a period of national mourning these games were reluctantly played out at the behest of the league's authorities. Torino were only able to call upon their callow youth team and so, in an act of defiance to the game's rulers, and solidarity and respect to Torino, their opponents - Genoa, Palermo, Sampdoria, and Fiorentina - also sent out their youth teams.

The Superga tragedy is unparalleled in sporting history. Of course there was Munich a decade later, an equally magnificent set of players and potential wiped out in one horrific moment, but, unlike United, Torino have never truly recovered. In the sixties the all-powerful Agnelli family - owners of Fiat - took control of their once inferior arch-rivals Juventus and, with substantial bankrolling, paved the way for a black-and-white dominance for many years to come. In 1959 Torino's charismatic Filadelfia stadium - that had showcased Mazzola's sublime talent, echoed the thunderous chants of 'Toro, Toro', and shook to Rigamonti's uncompromising tackles - was abandoned due to crippling financial problems. A proposal was tentatively put forward for a communal ground to be shared with the rising Juve, which later became the imposing Delle Alpi stadium. Sadly, Torino, often languishing in Serie B, with bankruptcy an ever-present shadow, soon began to resemble its poor tenants.
This is still the case. In fact, never more so. The last fifty years have brought little but dispiriting, prolonged spells in the lower leagues and fraught, top-flight relegation campaigns.
Torino's existence has become largely one of struggle, toil and survival. A once mighty club is now a sleeping, some might say comotosed, giant. But it is a giant with a rich history steeped in silverware, mythology and bygone excellence.
It is a history that should never be forgotten.

At half-time Torino were leading 7-0. The players agreed in the changing room that any more goals would appear arrogant and, not wanting to inflict further humiliation on their Roma opponents (who they had lunched with prior to the game), they decided to ease up as the game was patently already won. During the second half Torino's Franco Ossola, a superb winger and gentle soul, was tripped in the box. The referee duly pointed to the spot, but Ossola insisted the foul occurred outside the area. The free kick was blazed purposely over the bar.
 

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