The Tottenham Thread 12/13

[bluemiester]

I think Spurs will dick Chelsea.

Can't see it personally. Chelsea are on a very good run at the moment, in my opinion they will win it.

Not really a huge amount of difference in recent the form of the two clubs...

In terms of results perhaps not, but Spurs form has been bad. I 'd much prefer Spurs to finish in the top 4, than either Chelsea or Arsenal. But I hate the way the fact your team has played so badly this season and it's gone unnoticed. AVB has been getting crazy praise, but I honestly think Levy should consider replacing him in the summer. How many times does Bale have to save the day with a piece of magic before people start to ask why it's always needed. I know you've lost key players, but still, this shouldn't account for the performances.

AVB seems to be under no pressure and is getting no criticism. But results don't always show the whole story. I find it difficult to believe that Levy and his advisers are sitting there each week and not starting to wonder about AVB. It's not every now and again that you have a poor game only to be saved by Bale. The turn around against us was a very rare plus, yet it got so much attention. No one mentions how rubbish you were for 60 mins, as indeed you were for most games.

Why aren't Spurs fans concerned? All I ever hear when I ask them is a bunch of excuses about what they think AVB wants to do in the future, but this seems to be pure guess work. When I ask about the impact his coaching has had this season, they don't seem to be able to come up with much. We can all see Bale has been amazing and kept you in the CL race, but what the hell has AVB himself done. It seems to me you are now poor to watch and the majority of players have gone backwards. At one point some fans were trying to suggest he's improved Lennon and Defoe, but as the season has gone on, even their stats are worse than last season. What's going on?

 

[THFC6061]

Can't see it personally. Chelsea are on a very good run at the moment, in my opinion they will win it.

Not really a huge amount of difference in recent the form of the two clubs...

In terms of results perhaps not, but Spurs form has been bad. I 'd much prefer Spurs to finish in the top 4, than either Chelsea or Arsenal. But I hate the way the fact your team has played so badly this season and it's gone unnoticed. AVB has been getting crazy praise, but I honestly think Levy should consider replacing him in the summer. How many times does Bale have to save the day with a piece of magic before people start to ask why it's always needed. I know you've lost key players, but still, this shouldn't account for the performances.

AVB seems to be under no pressure and is getting no criticism. But results don't always show the whole story. I find it difficult to believe that Levy and his advisers are sitting there each week and not starting to wonder about AVB. It's not every now and again that you have a poor game only to be saved by Bale. The turn around against us was a very rare plus, yet it got so much attention. No one mentions how rubbish you were for 60 mins, as indeed you were for most games.

Why aren't Spurs fans concerned? All I ever hear when I ask them is a bunch of excuses about what they think AVB wants to do in the future, but this seems to be pure guess work. When I ask about the impact his coaching has had this season, they don't seem to be able to come up with much. We can all see Bale has been amazing and kept you in the CL race, but what the hell has AVB himself done. It seems to me you are now poor to watch and the majority of players have gone backwards. At one point some fans were trying to suggest he's improved Lennon and Defoe, but as the season has gone on, even their stats are worse than last season. What's going on?

A few points to bear in mind:

1. Spurs have a new club Premier League record set this season of 65 points after 35 games.

2. We need 5 points from our last 3 matches to equal our record Premier League Era points record and 6 points to set a new one.

3. André Villas-Boas has the best record, statistically speaking, of any Spurs manager since the club joined the Football League in 1908.

4. AVB's Premier League win rate stands at 54.29%, Harry's was 49.31%.

5. This is AVB's first season at the club - if he's already our most successful manager since 1908 just imagine what might come in future seasons.

 

[stony]

A few points to bear in mind:

1. Spurs have a new club Premier League record set this season of 65 points after 35 games.

Helped in a large part by Bale. Without him you would be nowhere near your record points

2. We need 5 points from our last 3 matches to equal our record Premier League Era points record and 6 points to set a new one.

I refer you to my first answer because point two is basically point one with knobs on

3. André Villas-Boas has the best record, statistically speaking, of any Spurs manager since the club joined the Football League in 1908.

Again I refer you to my first answer. AVB's ineptitude has largely gone unnoticed due to Bale bailing him out.

4. AVB's Premier League win rate stands at 54.29%, Harry's was 49.31%.

This really is getting tedious. If if wasn't for Bale his win rate would be nowhere near that.

5. This is AVB's first season at the club - if he's already our most successful manager since 1908 just imagine what might come in future seasons.

And most of that is down to Bale. Just imagine what will happen in future seasons when Bale is no longer around to cover for his mistakes.

You really are the Comical Ali of football forums.

 

[bluemiester]

Not really a huge amount of difference in recent the form of the two clubs...

In terms of results perhaps not, but Spurs form has been bad. I 'd much prefer Spurs to finish in the top 4, than either Chelsea or Arsenal. But I hate the way the fact your team has played so badly this season and it's gone unnoticed. AVB has been getting crazy praise, but I honestly think Levy should consider replacing him in the summer. How many times does Bale have to save the day with a piece of magic before people start to ask why it's always needed. I know you've lost key players, but still, this shouldn't account for the performances.

AVB seems to be under no pressure and is getting no criticism. But results don't always show the whole story. I find it difficult to believe that Levy and his advisers are sitting there each week and not starting to wonder about AVB. It's not every now and again that you have a poor game only to be saved by Bale. The turn around against us was a very rare plus, yet it got so much attention. No one mentions how rubbish you were for 60 mins, as indeed you were for most games.

Why aren't Spurs fans concerned? All I ever hear when I ask them is a bunch of excuses about what they think AVB wants to do in the future, but this seems to be pure guess work. When I ask about the impact his coaching has had this season, they don't seem to be able to come up with much. We can all see Bale has been amazing and kept you in the CL race, but what the hell has AVB himself done. It seems to me you are now poor to watch and the majority of players have gone backwards. At one point some fans were trying to suggest he's improved Lennon and Defoe, but as the season has gone on, even their stats are worse than last season. What's going on?

A few points to bear in mind:

1. Spurs have a new club Premier League record set this season of 65 points after 35 games.

2. We need 5 points from our last 3 matches to equal our record Premier League Era points record and 6 points to set a new one.

3. André Villas-Boas has the best record, statistically speaking, of any Spurs manager since the club joined the Football League in 1908.

4. AVB's Premier League win rate stands at 54.29%, Harry's was 49.31%.

5. This is AVB's first season at the club - if he's already our most successful manager since 1908 just imagine what might come in future seasons.

But mate that's totally ignoring the point I'm making. We know results have been good, but any fool who watches your games can see why that is. I'm not asking about your results, but about AVB's impact. You can't possibly have watched yesterdays games and thought what a well coached team! The same was true against Wigan, Swansea, Basel and Fulham. That's just recently. I remember at the start of the season your fans were actually booing the team as things were so bad. You had a purple patch, but again so many times it was Bale hiding poor performances.

The best example of what I'm talking about is February. I believe AVB was Manager of the month. But the reality is Bale saved your arse with amazing goals against Norwich, Newcastle, West Brom and West Ham. You didn't play well in any of those games. There was no sign of a well coached team at all. Bale just did some extraordinary things and won games for you.

Norwich were heading for a well deserved victory, the Bale did this:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFNswz9olsg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFNswz9olsg</a>

WBA deserved at least a draw, but probably were the better side, then Bale did this:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrg689jIMMQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrg689jIMMQ</a>

Same thing happened at West Ham:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFgekB3JAUw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFgekB3JAUw</a>


So I'm not asking why Spurs fans aren't worried abut results, as I can see why that is. Once again we saw it yesterday.

I'm asking about the AVB impact and why you aren't worried about that. I know all fans have a desire to believe their club is on the right track and thus want to believe in the coach. This is very easy to do when results are going well. But anyone who watches your games must have noticed you are a poor team being carried by the brilliance of one player. What has happened to the rest of your team? Why aren't you concerned about AVB. You can use all the stats you like, but it doesn't change what you are seeing with your own eyes.

Also, he took over a Spurs after they finished in the top 5, 3 seasons in a row. So it's not like he's taken over the in usual circumstances a Spurs manager finds themselves in. Traditionally Spurs managers take over a poorly run, mid table team. Hence AVB's stats are favourable. You might have a lot of points compared to other seasons, but so do everyone but us. Of the top 7 every team looks on course to win more points than last season, which suggests a weaker Prem. Like you Arsenal have sold key player and they too will beat last seasons total. Football is a comparison with other teams, and compared to your rivals, you look to be worse off than last year. Bale has hidden just to what a dramtic extent you are worse than last year.

 

[Castiel]

So this is Spurs being successful? Harry had you playing much better IMO regardless of win percentages.

We've also beaten Basel home and away in that run of form who knocked you out a few weeks earlier and should have beaten Liverpool if not for another refereeing scandal; whereas you should have lost to Wigan and got a draw against Southampton. It's great that you turned those games into wins but Spurs have been playing very poorly. We are in much better form but I can't believe our squad hasn't broken down yet. I can't remember the last time we had a week between games.

 

[THFC6061]

So this is Spurs being successful? Harry had you playing much better IMO regardless of win percentages.

We've also beaten Basel home and away in that run of form who knocked you out a few weeks earlier and should have beaten Liverpool if not for another refereeing scandal; whereas you should have lost to Wigan and got a draw against Southampton. It's great that you turned those games into wins but Spurs have been playing very poorly. We are in much better form but I can't believe our squad hasn't broken down yet. I can't remember the last time we had a week between games.

The mark of a good team is getting results, even if you're not playing to your full potential.

The will to win and to never give up on a game is something Spurs never had under Harry.

 

[Castiel]

The mark of a good team is getting results, even if you're not playing to your full potential.

The will to win and to never give up on a game is something Spurs never had under Harry.

In 2010 when you qualified for the CL Redknap had (W/D/L) 21/7/10 (70 points) to your current 19/8/8. It's quite unlikely you'll win your remaining three. Funny that Harry SET that record that you're so proud of. Last season he got you to 20/9/9 with 69 points, and got you into the CL places again - but you know how that went wrong for you in the end. Point is he broke through the glass ceiling twice, and he actually had you playing well a lot of the time as a team. Right now Spurs are completely reliant on Bale and I'd be very concerned about that because if he leaves in the summer it could all go down the tubes.

Redknapp isn't a world class manager, not by a long shot, but I think he's better than AVB. He had you playing better football and he actually achieved your goals twice. When he got there Spurs were in mid table mediocrity.

 

[bluemiester]

So this is Spurs being successful? Harry had you playing much better IMO regardless of win percentages.

We've also beaten Basel home and away in that run of form who knocked you out a few weeks earlier and should have beaten Liverpool if not for another refereeing scandal; whereas you should have lost to Wigan and got a draw against Southampton. It's great that you turned those games into wins but Spurs have been playing very poorly. We are in much better form but I can't believe our squad hasn't broken down yet. I can't remember the last time we had a week between games.

The mark of a good team is getting results, even if you're not playing to your full potential.

The will to win and to never give up on a game is something Spurs never had under Harry.

But you're not a good team!!! It's not as if you keep knocking on the door until it finally breaks down. To be fair to Arsenal, they score a lot of late goals because they pass teams to death and never give in. Their team play eventually gets the better of the opposition. Spurs tend to be very average for most of the game until Bale single handedly saves the day. It's not like he's been scoring tap ins int he six yard box, after great build up play to earn Spurs a well deserved draw or win.

Why are Spurs fans so often like you in this regard? Why can't you just tell it like it is, instead of trying to find ways to convince yourself things are better than they are. There is a problem at Spurs. Even if you do finish 4th it isn't going to go away. You finished 4th last season and Arsenal have since lost RVP, which is way more of a loss than any of the players Spurs lost. 4th isn't a great achievement with this is mind. Yet all I ever hear from Spurs fans is that you sold Modric and VDV. So what, it's not as big as selling RVP and Song. I'd like you to finish 4th, but don't think you will. I just can't understand why there is this blanket refusal to consider that AVB might be a negative factor.

I can't help but feel that had AVB taken over from someone like Bobby Robson, instead of Redknapp, people would be far more prepared to start questioning his impact.

 

[Crouchinho]

So this is Spurs being successful? Harry had you playing much better IMO regardless of win percentages.

We've also beaten Basel home and away in that run of form who knocked you out a few weeks earlier and should have beaten Liverpool if not for another refereeing scandal; whereas you should have lost to Wigan and got a draw against Southampton. It's great that you turned those games into wins but Spurs have been playing very poorly. We are in much better form but I can't believe our squad hasn't broken down yet. I can't remember the last time we had a week between games.

The mark of a good team is getting results, even if you're not playing to your full potential.

The will to win and to never give up on a game is something Spurs never had under Harry.

But you're not a good team!!! It's not as if you keep knocking on the door until it finally breaks down. To be fair to Arsenal, they score a lot of late goals because they pass teams to death and never give in. Their team play eventually gets the better of the opposition. Spurs tend to be very average for most of the game until Bale single handedly saves the day. It's not like he's been scoring tap ins int he six yard box, after great build up play to earn Spurs a well deserved draw or win.

Why are Spurs fans so often like you in this regard? Why can't you just tell it like it is, instead of trying to find ways to convince yourself things are better than they are. There is a problem at Spurs. Even if you do finish 4th it isn't going to go away. You finished 4th last season and Arsenal have since lost RVP, which is way more of a loss than any of the players Spurs lost. 4th isn't a great achievement with this is mind. Yet all I ever hear from Spurs fans is that you sold Modric and VDV. So what, it's not as big as selling RVP and Song. I'd like you to finish 4th, but don't think you will. I just can't understand why there is this blanket refusal to consider that AVB might be a negative factor.

I can't help but feel that had AVB taken over from someone like Bobby Robson, instead of Redknapp, people would be far more prepared to start questioning his impact.

Losing Vdv and modric was massive for us, they were our best players at the time. If we had both of them I'm sure we'd be in third place now quite easily. Those two players were as important to us as rvp and song were to arsenal, I'd say more so.

Harry had a better team last season and should have got us third. The football was very exciting at times.

I agree we were dreadful in some of them games, bale has 'baled' us out a few times. We have had some bad injuries along the way as well, Lennon and Dembele have been playing through injury, not to mention losing sandro for the season.

With bale playing more centrally we don't have much width at all. Rose and Townsend are loaned out. For any neutral not knowing spurs, they wouldn't have worked out if Ekotto was a winger or left back, he had to work the whole side the other day. Because of Defoe and adebayor dicking about bale has had to play more advanced, so of course he will get more goals. Our misfiring strikers means he's had to step his game up more, but with no real wingers we lack that spark.

We've now got thudd back (almost sold earlier on in the season) and parker has been playing more advanced due to Dembele struggling with his injury. That's how bad it's got lately

We haven't hit the dizzying heights of last season but we're still up there. Arsenal haven't played well in months but are still there too. Chelsea are the only team who look good for me at the moment

I don't think avb should be judged on his first season, I don't think he got the transfers he wanted either. If he does get us fourth with a weaker squad than harrys I think it would be a job well done

So when are you selling us dzeko? we signed the wrong one. Stony was right about ade playing for a contract, I get the feeling him and avb don't get along at all

 

[GHoddle]

So this is Spurs being successful? Harry had you playing much better IMO regardless of win percentages.

We've also beaten Basel home and away in that run of form who knocked you out a few weeks earlier and should have beaten Liverpool if not for another refereeing scandal; whereas you should have lost to Wigan and got a draw against Southampton. It's great that you turned those games into wins but Spurs have been playing very poorly. We are in much better form but I can't believe our squad hasn't broken down yet. I can't remember the last time we had a week between games.

So Castiel what do you think of 'Fat Spanish Waiter'. I remember telling you that he is a pretty decent manager before, which you point blank denied, so how do you explain your rise in performance? I think an objective observer would have to admit that Benitez has done a pretty good job so far.

So I think I'll trust my managerial judgment over your's haha. At times we were better under Harry. At times we were much, much worse. Particularly in the latter part of seasons. I'm pleased to see that we haven't collapsed like we did last season, we actually picked up 11 points in the last 5 league games which is pretty good, and we've only been beaten twice in the last 19. I'm also pleased to see that we've started beating the better teams, while under Harry we usually lost and at times got hammered.

Unlike the Chelsea board and owner, I know that a manager like AVB needs to be given time. I didn't expect us to be where we are this season, I can see that some aspects of his style will take a longer time to develop. Under Harry our players were used to a very free form type of football, and the transition to an organized system where each player has defined roles is a difficult one to make. Ultimately I believe that we will profit from having patience and not being trigger happy with a promising young manager.