The Tottenham Thread 12/13

[GHoddle]

A few points to bear in mind:

1. Spurs have a new club Premier League record set this season of 65 points after 35 games.

Helped in a large part by Bale. Without him you would be nowhere near your record points

2. We need 5 points from our last 3 matches to equal our record Premier League Era points record and 6 points to set a new one.

I refer you to my first answer because point two is basically point one with knobs on

3. André Villas-Boas has the best record, statistically speaking, of any Spurs manager since the club joined the Football League in 1908.

Again I refer you to my first answer. AVB's ineptitude has largely gone unnoticed due to Bale bailing him out.

4. AVB's Premier League win rate stands at 54.29%, Harry's was 49.31%.

This really is getting tedious. If if wasn't for Bale his win rate would be nowhere near that.

5. This is AVB's first season at the club - if he's already our most successful manager since 1908 just imagine what might come in future seasons.

And most of that is down to Bale. Just imagine what will happen in future seasons when Bale is no longer around to cover for his mistakes.

You really are the Comical Ali of football forums.

Lol so AVB gets blamed for the poor players but no credit for the ones who have performed well or improved on last season. Wouldn't every manager be shit if they were only judged on the performances of their worst players?

 

[GHoddle]

So I'm not asking why Spurs fans aren't worried abut results, as I can see why that is. Once again we saw it yesterday.

I'm asking about the AVB impact and why you aren't worried about that. I know all fans have a desire to believe their club is on the right track and thus want to believe in the coach. This is very easy to do when results are going well. But anyone who watches your games must have noticed you are a poor team being carried by the brilliance of one player. What has happened to the rest of your team? Why aren't you concerned about AVB. You can use all the stats you like, but it doesn't change what you are seeing with your own eyes.

Also, he took over a Spurs after they finished in the top 5, 3 seasons in a row. So it's not like he's taken over the in usual circumstances a Spurs manager finds themselves in. Traditionally Spurs managers take over a poorly run, mid table team. Hence AVB's stats are favourable. You might have a lot of points compared to other seasons, but so do everyone but us. Of the top 7 every team looks on course to win more points than last season, which suggests a weaker Prem. Like you Arsenal have sold key player and they too will beat last seasons total. Football is a comparison with other teams, and compared to your rivals, you look to be worse off than last year. Bale has hidden just to what a dramtic extent you are worse than last year.

Sorry but it seems like you're basing all that off one game against a Southampton team who deserve great credit for how well they played. Under Pochettino and even before under Adkins they've been excellent, have you forgotten that they played yourselves, Chelsea and Liverpool off the park at home recently? They also should have beaten United at Old Trafford and were the better team. Arsenal had 6 shots, and only 1 on target, when they last played Southampton. Only us and United have actually beaten them twice.

I've seen plenty of good games where we played great football. We've been more scrappy of late but we've had some great performances over the season. United at home we were easily the better team, same with away in the first half. Liverpool away we were the better team imo and we were probably unlucky to lost that one. Arsenal at home we were comfortably better. We were excellent against Inter at home.

Not saying we're problem-free, I certainly have worries and some complaints (more directed at Levy than AVB), but I like what I'm seeing this season. We're not as stylish but we have more substance.

 

[Marvin]

So I'm not asking why Spurs fans aren't worried abut results, as I can see why that is. Once again we saw it yesterday.

I'm asking about the AVB impact and why you aren't worried about that. I know all fans have a desire to believe their club is on the right track and thus want to believe in the coach. This is very easy to do when results are going well. But anyone who watches your games must have noticed you are a poor team being carried by the brilliance of one player. What has happened to the rest of your team? Why aren't you concerned about AVB. You can use all the stats you like, but it doesn't change what you are seeing with your own eyes.

Also, he took over a Spurs after they finished in the top 5, 3 seasons in a row. So it's not like he's taken over the in usual circumstances a Spurs manager finds themselves in. Traditionally Spurs managers take over a poorly run, mid table team. Hence AVB's stats are favourable. You might have a lot of points compared to other seasons, but so do everyone but us. Of the top 7 every team looks on course to win more points than last season, which suggests a weaker Prem. Like you Arsenal have sold key player and they too will beat last seasons total. Football is a comparison with other teams, and compared to your rivals, you look to be worse off than last year. Bale has hidden just to what a dramtic extent you are worse than last year.

Sorry but it seems like you're basing all that off one game against a Southampton team who deserve great credit for how well they played. Under Pochettino and even before under Adkins they've been excellent, have you forgotten that they played yourselves, Chelsea and Liverpool off the park at home recently? They also should have beaten United at Old Trafford and were the better team. Arsenal had 6 shots, and only 1 on target, when they last played Southampton. Only us and United have actually beaten them twice.

I've seen plenty of good games where we played great football. We've been more scrappy of late but we've had some great performances over the season. United at home we were easily the better team, same with away in the first half. Liverpool away we were the better team imo and we were probably unlucky to lost that one. Arsenal at home we were comfortably better. We were excellent against Inter at home.

Not saying we're problem-free, I certainly have worries and some complaints (more directed at Levy than AVB), but I like what I'm seeing this season. We're not as stylish but we have more substance.

Southampton are indeed a very good passing team. But you were at home, and should really be dominating a game like that

As you say though. Getting results at this stage of the season is what it's all about

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

So I'm not asking why Spurs fans aren't worried abut results, as I can see why that is. Once again we saw it yesterday.

I'm asking about the AVB impact and why you aren't worried about that. I know all fans have a desire to believe their club is on the right track and thus want to believe in the coach. This is very easy to do when results are going well. But anyone who watches your games must have noticed you are a poor team being carried by the brilliance of one player. What has happened to the rest of your team? Why aren't you concerned about AVB. You can use all the stats you like, but it doesn't change what you are seeing with your own eyes.

Also, he took over a Spurs after they finished in the top 5, 3 seasons in a row. So it's not like he's taken over the in usual circumstances a Spurs manager finds themselves in. Traditionally Spurs managers take over a poorly run, mid table team. Hence AVB's stats are favourable. You might have a lot of points compared to other seasons, but so do everyone but us. Of the top 7 every team looks on course to win more points than last season, which suggests a weaker Prem. Like you Arsenal have sold key player and they too will beat last seasons total. Football is a comparison with other teams, and compared to your rivals, you look to be worse off than last year. Bale has hidden just to what a dramtic extent you are worse than last year.

Sorry but it seems like you're basing all that off one game against a Southampton team who deserve great credit for how well they played. Under Pochettino and even before under Adkins they've been excellent, have you forgotten that they played yourselves, Chelsea and Liverpool off the park at home recently? They also should have beaten United at Old Trafford and were the better team. Arsenal had 6 shots, and only 1 on target, when they last played Southampton. Only us and United have actually beaten them twice.

I've seen plenty of good games where we played great football. We've been more scrappy of late but we've had some great performances over the season. United at home we were easily the better team, same with away in the first half. Liverpool away we were the better team imo and we were probably unlucky to lost that one. Arsenal at home we were comfortably better. We were excellent against Inter at home.

Not saying we're problem-free, I certainly have worries and some complaints (more directed at Levy than AVB), but I like what I'm seeing this season. We're not as stylish but we have more substance.

Southampton are indeed a very good passing team. But you were at home, and should really be dominating a game like that

As you say though. Getting results at this stage of the season is what it's all about

Southampton gave us two really tough games this season.

 

[THFC6061]

Chelsea host Tottenham Hotspur at Stamford Bridge on Wednesday 8th May 2013 (KO 19:45) in the 36th round of 2012-13 Premier League matches in a game which was postponed due to Chelsea's FA Cup involvement.

Chelsea come into the game in 3rd place on 68 points with Spurs in 5th place on 65 points in a game which will have a dramatic impact on the race to secure Champions League football for the 2013-14 season. This will be the 190th time the two teams have met each other.

Chelsea are one of the few major English football teams who never played Spurs during the Victorian Era, as they were only founded in 1905 and were admitted into the Second Division of the Football League without ever having played a match before.

This was due to the rivalry that existed at the time between the Football League and the Southern League with the former desperate to make in-roads into the lucrative markets which London and the South-East provided.

The first meeting between Spurs and Chelsea was a friendly played at Stamford Bridge in February 1908 and ended in a 2-2 draw.

The same venue saw the first Football League Division One encounter in December 1909 and Chelsea won that match 2-1.

The return fixture at White Hart Lane was won by Spurs 2-1 and in between those two matches the clubs met in the old second round (today's fourth round) of the FA Cup in a match which Spurs won 1-0 at Stamford Bridge.

Spurs and Chelsea would meet for another three seasons in the First Division before the outbreak of World War One with honours even at two wins for Spurs, two wins for Chelsea and two drawn matches.

14 games were played during the First World War and these featured many players who 'guested' for both clubs. Five of Tottenham's "home" games were played at Arsenal's Highbury Stadium.

Spurs and Chelsea had finished in the bottom two places in the last season of the First Division when war broke out and when football resumed in 1919, the Division was expanded from 20 to 22 teams.

Arsenal engineered a 'promotion' to the First Division at Spurs' expense but Tottenham easilly won the Division Two Championship and the next season had two emphatic wins over Chelsea 5-0 at home and 4-0 at the Bridge.

The teams would meet for another five seasons in the First Division and two seasons in the Second Division during the inter-war period - season 1929-30 was the last time Spurs & Chelsea played League games outside the Top Flight of English Football.

Spurs only lost two of those 14 League matches.

During World War Two, 16 games were played between Spurs and Chelsea

Spurs returned to the First Division in season 1950-51 and did the 'double' over Chelsea winning 2-0 away and 2-1 at home on their way to the first Football League Championship.

Tottenham Hotspur and Chelsea contested the first all-London FA Cup Final in 1967 at Wembley with Spurs winning 2-1 thanks to goals scored by Jimmy Robertson and Frank Saul.

The first meeting in the Football League Cup came in the 1971-72 Semi-Finals with Chelsea winning the first leg at Stamford Bridge 3-2 and Spurs only managing a 2-2 draw at White Hart Lane.

Both clubs were founder members of the Premier League in 1992-93 and both have been ever-present for the 21 seasons of the competition, along with Arsenal, Aston Villa, Everton, Liverpool and Manchester United.

Chelsea have very much had the upper hand during the Premier League Era with 23 wins to Tottenham's 3 with the remaining 15 matches drawn.

A second domestic Cup Final was contested in 2008 when Spurs beat Chelsea in the Football League (Carling) Cup Final 2-1 after extra time at Wembley. A Dimitar Berbatov penalty and a Jonathan Woodgate header ensured the silverware would once again reside in North London.

The 2010-11 fixture in December at White Hart Lane resulted in a 1-1 draw with Roman Pavlyuchenko scoring for Spurs after 15 minutes and Didier Drogba getting Chelsea's equaliser after 70 minutes. Drogba's injury time penalty was saved by Heurelho Gomes.

The reverse fixture at Stamford Bridge in April was won by Chelsea 2-1 with Spurs taking a 19th minute lead through Sandro and Frank Lampard equalising on half time. Salomon Kalou scored the winner after 89 minutes.

The 2011-12 match at White Hart Lane in December resulted in a 1-1 draw with Emmanuel Adebayor putting Spurs ahead after 8 minutes and Chelsea's Daniel Sturridge getting the equaliser in the 23rd minute. The game at Stamford Bridge in March ended in a goalless draw.

Chelsea won the 2012 FA Cup Semi-Final at Wembley 5-1 with the turning-point coming from a 49th minute Juan Mata goal which never crossed the line. Didier Drogba had put the Blues ahead just before the interval and Spurs managed to pull a goal back in the 56th minute through Gareth Bale. Three further goals from Ramares, Lampard and Malouda were added for Chelsea.

Andre Villas-Boas was sacked as Chelsea's manager in March 2012 and became the manager of Tottenham Hotspur on 3rd July 2012.

The match at White Hart Lane in October 2012 was won by Chelsea 4-2. A Gary Cahill volly after 17 minutes was the only goal of the first half and Spurs went ahead with goals from William Gallas and Jermain Defoe. A brace from Juan Mata and a Daniel Sturridge goal gave Chelsea the three points.

Overall, Spurs have won 68, Chelsea have won 74 and 47 of the 189 matches between the two clubs have been drawn.

They Played for Spurs & Chelsea....

Clive Allen
Les Allen
Jimmy Armstrong
Frank Arnesen (Director of Football both clubs)
Eddie Bailey
Ted Birnie
Danny Blanchflower (Spurs player, Chelsea manager)
Derek Brazil
Johnny Brooks
Bill Cartwright
Sid Castle
David Copeland
Carlo Cudicini
Jason Cundy
Kerry Dixon
Gordon Durie
Mark Falco
William Gallas
Lee Gardner
George Graham (Chelsea player, Spurs manager)
Jimmy Greaves
Frode Grodas
Eidur Gudjohnsen
Tommy Harmer (Spurs player, Chelsea coach)
Alan Harris (Chelsea player, Spurs asst. manager)
Micky Hazard
Glenn Hoddle (Spurs & Chelsea player & manager)
Stewart Houston (Chelsea player, Spurs asst. manager)
Percy Humphries
Steve Kelly
John Kirwan
Colin Lee
Scott Parker
Gustavo Poyet
Graham Roberts
Max Seeburg
Buchanan Sharp
Bobby Smith
Neil Sullivan
Andy Thompson (Spurs player, Chelsea coach)
Sid Tickridge
Jimmy Townley
Terry Venables (also Spurs manager)
Andre Villas-Boas (manager at both clubs)
Keith Weller
Ernie Walley (Spurs player, Chelsea asst. manager)
Harry Wilding
Clive Wilson
Vivian Woodward

 

[stony]

A few points to bear in mind:

1. Spurs have a new club Premier League record set this season of 65 points after 35 games.

Helped in a large part by Bale. Without him you would be nowhere near your record points

2. We need 5 points from our last 3 matches to equal our record Premier League Era points record and 6 points to set a new one.

I refer you to my first answer because point two is basically point one with knobs on

3. André Villas-Boas has the best record, statistically speaking, of any Spurs manager since the club joined the Football League in 1908.

Again I refer you to my first answer. AVB's ineptitude has largely gone unnoticed due to Bale bailing him out.

4. AVB's Premier League win rate stands at 54.29%, Harry's was 49.31%.

This really is getting tedious. If if wasn't for Bale his win rate would be nowhere near that.

5. This is AVB's first season at the club - if he's already our most successful manager since 1908 just imagine what might come in future seasons.

And most of that is down to Bale. Just imagine what will happen in future seasons when Bale is no longer around to cover for his mistakes.

You really are the Comical Ali of football forums.

Lol so AVB gets blamed for the poor players but no credit for the ones who have performed well or improved on last season. Wouldn't every manager be shit if they were only judged on the performances of their worst players?

Not really mate, I was just pissing on the chips of 6061 who seems to be in charge of propaganda for your club.
You must admit though, without Bale, your season would be a wash out.

 

[cleavers]

Chelsea host Tottenham Hotspur at Stamford Bridge on Wednesday 8th May 2013 (KO 19:45) in the 36th round of 2012-13 Premier League matches in a game which was postponed due to Chelsea's FA Cup involvement.

Chelsea come into the game in 3rd place on 68 points with Spurs in 5th place on 65 points in a game which will have a dramatic impact on the race to secure Champions League football for the 2013-14 season. This will be the 190th time the two teams have met each other.

Chelsea are one of the few major English football teams who never played Spurs during the Victorian Era, as they were only founded in 1905 and were admitted into the Second Division of the Football League without ever having played a match before.

This was due to the rivalry that existed at the time between the Football League and the Southern League with the former desperate to make in-roads into the lucrative markets which London and the South-East provided.

The first meeting between Spurs and Chelsea was a friendly played at Stamford Bridge in February 1908 and ended in a 2-2 draw.

The same venue saw the first Football League Division One encounter in December 1909 and Chelsea won that match 2-1.

The return fixture at White Hart Lane was won by Spurs 2-1 and in between those two matches the clubs met in the old second round (today's fourth round) of the FA Cup in a match which Spurs won 1-0 at Stamford Bridge.

Spurs and Chelsea would meet for another three seasons in the First Division before the outbreak of World War One with honours even at two wins for Spurs, two wins for Chelsea and two drawn matches.

14 games were played during the First World War and these featured many players who 'guested' for both clubs. Five of Tottenham's "home" games were played at Arsenal's Highbury Stadium.

Spurs and Chelsea had finished in the bottom two places in the last season of the First Division when war broke out and when football resumed in 1919, the Division was expanded from 20 to 22 teams.

Arsenal engineered a 'promotion' to the First Division at Spurs' expense but Tottenham easilly won the Division Two Championship and the next season had two emphatic wins over Chelsea 5-0 at home and 4-0 at the Bridge.

The teams would meet for another five seasons in the First Division and two seasons in the Second Division during the inter-war period - season 1929-30 was the last time Spurs & Chelsea played League games outside the Top Flight of English Football.

Spurs only lost two of those 14 League matches.

During World War Two, 16 games were played between Spurs and Chelsea

Spurs returned to the First Division in season 1950-51 and did the 'double' over Chelsea winning 2-0 away and 2-1 at home on their way to the first Football League Championship.

Tottenham Hotspur and Chelsea contested the first all-London FA Cup Final in 1967 at Wembley with Spurs winning 2-1 thanks to goals scored by Jimmy Robertson and Frank Saul.

The first meeting in the Football League Cup came in the 1971-72 Semi-Finals with Chelsea winning the first leg at Stamford Bridge 3-2 and Spurs only managing a 2-2 draw at White Hart Lane.

Both clubs were founder members of the Premier League in 1992-93 and both have been ever-present for the 21 seasons of the competition, along with Arsenal, Aston Villa, Everton, Liverpool and Manchester United.

Chelsea have very much had the upper hand during the Premier League Era with 23 wins to Tottenham's 3 with the remaining 15 matches drawn.

A second domestic Cup Final was contested in 2008 when Spurs beat Chelsea in the Football League (Carling) Cup Final 2-1 after extra time at Wembley. A Dimitar Berbatov penalty and a Jonathan Woodgate header ensured the silverware would once again reside in North London.

The 2010-11 fixture in December at White Hart Lane resulted in a 1-1 draw with Roman Pavlyuchenko scoring for Spurs after 15 minutes and Didier Drogba getting Chelsea's equaliser after 70 minutes. Drogba's injury time penalty was saved by Heurelho Gomes.

The reverse fixture at Stamford Bridge in April was won by Chelsea 2-1 with Spurs taking a 19th minute lead through Sandro and Frank Lampard equalising on half time. Salomon Kalou scored the winner after 89 minutes.

The 2011-12 match at White Hart Lane in December resulted in a 1-1 draw with Emmanuel Adebayor putting Spurs ahead after 8 minutes and Chelsea's Daniel Sturridge getting the equaliser in the 23rd minute. The game at Stamford Bridge in March ended in a goalless draw.

Chelsea won the 2012 FA Cup Semi-Final at Wembley 5-1 with the turning-point coming from a 49th minute Juan Mata goal which never crossed the line. Didier Drogba had put the Blues ahead just before the interval and Spurs managed to pull a goal back in the 56th minute through Gareth Bale. Three further goals from Ramares, Lampard and Malouda were added for Chelsea.

Andre Villas-Boas was sacked as Chelsea's manager in March 2012 and became the manager of Tottenham Hotspur on 3rd July 2012.

The match at White Hart Lane in October 2012 was won by Chelsea 4-2. A Gary Cahill volly after 17 minutes was the only goal of the first half and Spurs went ahead with goals from William Gallas and Jermain Defoe. A brace from Juan Mata and a Daniel Sturridge goal gave Chelsea the three points.

Overall, Spurs have won 68, Chelsea have won 74 and 47 of the 189 matches between the two clubs have been drawn.

They Played for Spurs & Chelsea....

Clive Allen
Les Allen
Jimmy Armstrong
Frank Arnesen (Director of Football both clubs)
Eddie Bailey
Ted Birnie
Danny Blanchflower (Spurs player, Chelsea manager)
Derek Brazil
Johnny Brooks
Bill Cartwright
Sid Castle
David Copeland
Carlo Cudicini
Jason Cundy
Kerry Dixon
Gordon Durie
Mark Falco
William Gallas
Lee Gardner
George Graham (Chelsea player, Spurs manager)
Jimmy Greaves
Frode Grodas
Eidur Gudjohnsen
Tommy Harmer (Spurs player, Chelsea coach)
Alan Harris (Chelsea player, Spurs asst. manager)
Micky Hazard
Glenn Hoddle (Spurs & Chelsea player & manager)
Stewart Houston (Chelsea player, Spurs asst. manager)
Percy Humphries
Steve Kelly
John Kirwan
Colin Lee
Scott Parker
Gustavo Poyet
Graham Roberts
Max Seeburg
Buchanan Sharp
Bobby Smith
Neil Sullivan
Andy Thompson (Spurs player, Chelsea coach)
Sid Tickridge
Jimmy Townley
Terry Venables (also Spurs manager)
Andre Villas-Boas (manager at both clubs)
Keith Weller
Ernie Walley (Spurs player, Chelsea asst. manager)
Harry Wilding
Clive Wilson
Vivian Woodward

Bothered much ? Nope.

 

[bluemiester]

So I'm not asking why Spurs fans aren't worried abut results, as I can see why that is. Once again we saw it yesterday.

I'm asking about the AVB impact and why you aren't worried about that. I know all fans have a desire to believe their club is on the right track and thus want to believe in the coach. This is very easy to do when results are going well. But anyone who watches your games must have noticed you are a poor team being carried by the brilliance of one player. What has happened to the rest of your team? Why aren't you concerned about AVB. You can use all the stats you like, but it doesn't change what you are seeing with your own eyes.

Also, he took over a Spurs after they finished in the top 5, 3 seasons in a row. So it's not like he's taken over the in usual circumstances a Spurs manager finds themselves in. Traditionally Spurs managers take over a poorly run, mid table team. Hence AVB's stats are favourable. You might have a lot of points compared to other seasons, but so do everyone but us. Of the top 7 every team looks on course to win more points than last season, which suggests a weaker Prem. Like you Arsenal have sold key player and they too will beat last seasons total. Football is a comparison with other teams, and compared to your rivals, you look to be worse off than last year. Bale has hidden just to what a dramtic extent you are worse than last year.

Sorry but it seems like you're basing all that off one game against a Southampton team who deserve great credit for how well they played. Under Pochettino and even before under Adkins they've been excellent, have you forgotten that they played yourselves, Chelsea and Liverpool off the park at home recently? They also should have beaten United at Old Trafford and were the better team. Arsenal had 6 shots, and only 1 on target, when they last played Southampton. Only us and United have actually beaten them twice.

I've seen plenty of good games where we played great football. We've been more scrappy of late but we've had some great performances over the season. United at home we were easily the better team, same with away in the first half. Liverpool away we were the better team imo and we were probably unlucky to lost that one. Arsenal at home we were comfortably better. We were excellent against Inter at home.

Not saying we're problem-free, I certainly have worries and some complaints (more directed at Levy than AVB), but I like what I'm seeing this season. We're not as stylish but we have more substance.

I'm not judging you on the Southampton game, but the season as a whole. I agree with the good games you've listed, but they are no where near enough. You are cherry picking results, rather than looking at the general performances this season. You've been really bad in general, but for some reason your fans wont acknowledge it. I think it's because AVB is a nice guy and so many wanted Redknapp out. As I said previously, had AVB taken over from Bobby Robson, I can't see him being treated so well.

I can't see why your fans can't judge him as a coach. That is what he is. He isn't your manager and wasn't hired to do that role. If you judge him on his impact as a coach, you have to admit it's worrying. Yes, it's obvious to everyone that results and position are fine and if you finish 4th, it will be good. But isn't this in spite of AVB? I can accept the average football fan thinking what I'm saying is harsh, but not Spurs fans, as they watch things every week. Spurs fans seem to be in denial and refuse to acknowledge it.

Basically I'm aware of all the reasons you fans might come up with for not finishing top 4. I'm sure many are fair and have merit. But what I'm asking is that if you ignore all those things and simply judge AVB as a football coach, why aren't you worried? 5th with the squad you have is no achievement. It might seem like it, but that's because he turned a squad of good players into a squad of ordinary players, who play average football.

Last season Adebayor and Dempsey scored 34 goals between them. This season they've scored 9! Sygurdson and Caulker looked great at Swansea, yet average for you. Caulker in particular must be a worry. Walker was YPOTY, but has a had a stinker. Defoe has played twice as many minutes, yet has scored the same amount of goals! Parker has turned from your POTY, to your worse player. Naughton had a good season at Norwich, but now looks like he'd be out place in the Championship. Lennon is now scoring and making assists at a slower rate than last year. Dembele started brilliantly at Fulham, but his form has declined the longer he's been under AVB. Basically only Bale has had a good season.

I don't think it's fair to argue you have a poor squad. The players in it are mostly playing well below their capabilities. I can't be a coincidence. No matter where you finish, surely AVB is a concern.

It seems to me that the teams below are closing the gap from last season and the teams above you widening it. Yet none of your fans care and are convinced it's due to circumstance out of AVB's control. Yet if you simply judging him on the coaching he's done, then he's a very big part of the reason.

 

[THFC6061]

So I'm not asking why Spurs fans aren't worried abut results, as I can see why that is. Once again we saw it yesterday.

I'm asking about the AVB impact and why you aren't worried about that. I know all fans have a desire to believe their club is on the right track and thus want to believe in the coach. This is very easy to do when results are going well. But anyone who watches your games must have noticed you are a poor team being carried by the brilliance of one player. What has happened to the rest of your team? Why aren't you concerned about AVB. You can use all the stats you like, but it doesn't change what you are seeing with your own eyes.

Also, he took over a Spurs after they finished in the top 5, 3 seasons in a row. So it's not like he's taken over the in usual circumstances a Spurs manager finds themselves in. Traditionally Spurs managers take over a poorly run, mid table team. Hence AVB's stats are favourable. You might have a lot of points compared to other seasons, but so do everyone but us. Of the top 7 every team looks on course to win more points than last season, which suggests a weaker Prem. Like you Arsenal have sold key player and they too will beat last seasons total. Football is a comparison with other teams, and compared to your rivals, you look to be worse off than last year. Bale has hidden just to what a dramtic extent you are worse than last year.

Sorry but it seems like you're basing all that off one game against a Southampton team who deserve great credit for how well they played. Under Pochettino and even before under Adkins they've been excellent, have you forgotten that they played yourselves, Chelsea and Liverpool off the park at home recently? They also should have beaten United at Old Trafford and were the better team. Arsenal had 6 shots, and only 1 on target, when they last played Southampton. Only us and United have actually beaten them twice.

I've seen plenty of good games where we played great football. We've been more scrappy of late but we've had some great performances over the season. United at home we were easily the better team, same with away in the first half. Liverpool away we were the better team imo and we were probably unlucky to lost that one. Arsenal at home we were comfortably better. We were excellent against Inter at home.

Not saying we're problem-free, I certainly have worries and some complaints (more directed at Levy than AVB), but I like what I'm seeing this season. We're not as stylish but we have more substance.

I'm not judging you on the Southampton game, but the season as a whole. I agree with the good games you've listed, but they are no where near enough. You are cherry picking results, rather than looking at the general performances this season. You've been really bad in general, but for some reason your fans wont acknowledge it. I think it's because AVB is a nice guy and so many wanted Redknapp out. As I said previously, had AVB taken over from Bobby Robson, I can't see him being treated so well.

I can't see why your fans can't judge him as a coach. That is what he is. He isn't your manager and wasn't hired to do that role. If you judge him on his impact as a coach, you have to admit it's worrying. Yes, it's obvious to everyone that results and position are fine and if you finish 4th, it will be good. But isn't this in spite of AVB? I can accept the average football fan thinking what I'm saying is harsh, but not Spurs fans, as they watch things every week. Spurs fans seem to be in denial and refuse to acknowledge it.

Basically I'm aware of all the reasons you fans might come up with for not finishing top 4. I'm sure many are fair and have merit. But what I'm asking is that if you ignore all those things and simply judge AVB as a football coach, why aren't you worried? 5th with the squad you have is no achievement. It might seem like it, but that's because he turned a squad of good players into a squad of ordinary players, who play average football.

Last season Adebayor and Dempsey scored 34 goals between them. This season they've scored 9! Sygurdson and Caulker looked great at Swansea, yet average for you. Caulker in particular must be a worry. Walker was YPOTY, but has a had a stinker. Defoe has played twice as many minutes, yet has scored the same amount of goals! Parker has turned from your POTY, to your worse player. Naughton had a good season at Norwich, but now looks like he'd be out place in the Championship. Lennon is now scoring and making assists at a slower rate than last year. Dembele started brilliantly at Fulham, but his form has declined the longer he's been under AVB. Basically only Bale has had a good season.

I don't think it's fair to argue you have a poor squad. The players in it are mostly playing well below their capabilities. I can't be a coincidence. No matter where you finish, surely AVB is a concern.

It seems to me that the teams below are closing the gap from last season and the teams above you widening it. Yet none of your fans care and are convinced it's due to circumstance out of AVB's control. Yet if you simply judging him on the coaching he's done, then he's a very big part of the reason.

Last season City finished 20 points ahead of Spurs.

This season, the gap is only 7 points.

If both City and Spurs win their respective three remaining matches, City would still be 8 points worse off than their 2011-12 points total, while Spurs would be 5 points ahead of what they amassed last season.

 

[GHoddle]

I'm not judging you on the Southampton game, but the season as a whole. I agree with the good games you've listed, but they are no where near enough. You are cherry picking results, rather than looking at the general performances this season. You've been really bad in general, but for some reason your fans wont acknowledge it. I think it's because AVB is a nice guy and so many wanted Redknapp out. As I said previously, had AVB taken over from Bobby Robson, I can't see him being treated so well.

I can't see why your fans can't judge him as a coach. That is what he is. He isn't your manager and wasn't hired to do that role. If you judge him on his impact as a coach, you have to admit it's worrying. Yes, it's obvious to everyone that results and position are fine and if you finish 4th, it will be good. But isn't this in spite of AVB? I can accept the average football fan thinking what I'm saying is harsh, but not Spurs fans, as they watch things every week. Spurs fans seem to be in denial and refuse to acknowledge it.

Basically I'm aware of all the reasons you fans might come up with for not finishing top 4. I'm sure many are fair and have merit. But what I'm asking is that if you ignore all those things and simply judge AVB as a football coach, why aren't you worried? 5th with the squad you have is no achievement. It might seem like it, but that's because he turned a squad of good players into a squad of ordinary players, who play average football.

Last season Adebayor and Dempsey scored 34 goals between them. This season they've scored 9! Sygurdson and Caulker looked great at Swansea, yet average for you. Caulker in particular must be a worry. Walker was YPOTY, but has a had a stinker. Defoe has played twice as many minutes, yet has scored the same amount of goals! Parker has turned from your POTY, to your worse player. Naughton had a good season at Norwich, but now looks like he'd be out place in the Championship. Lennon is now scoring and making assists at a slower rate than last year. Dembele started brilliantly at Fulham, but his form has declined the longer he's been under AVB. Basically only Bale has had a good season.

I don't think it's fair to argue you have a poor squad. The players in it are mostly playing well below their capabilities. I can't be a coincidence. No matter where you finish, surely AVB is a concern.

It seems to me that the teams below are closing the gap from last season and the teams above you widening it. Yet none of your fans care and are convinced it's due to circumstance out of AVB's control. Yet if you simply judging him on the coaching he's done, then he's a very big part of the reason.

Come on, you are being ridiculous! Idk what you're theory is, that AVB somehow turned a bunch of good players into shit players? That doesn't happen, if they players are good enough they will show it, and if they aren't that will show too. Now if you said that AVB's style and system causes some weaknesses to be magnified, especially defensive weaknesses and slowness of thought, I would agree with that. Walker and Ekotto have been exposed as poor players since AVB has asked them to push up and play more attacking roles. Walker I have hope for, Ekotto not so much. To be honest many of our players aren't smart enough to play in organized roles that require understanding of the game. It didn't matter under Redknapp's "go run around a bit" philosophy but that style caused us often to get hammered at the hands of better teams, while this year we are actually winning those games.

By the way, I could ask the same thing about many player YOU have bought. Why did Edin Dzeko look amazing in the Bundesliga but has been lacklustre most of the time at City? Same thing with Nasri. Why has Garcia been poor, or why was Savic a flop? You went above our transfer record for three of those players - Nasri, Dzeko, and Garcia.

Even one of the examples you use for us - Adebayor, failed at City too. You bought him for 25 million pounds. There are tons of examples of players Mancini has bought who haven't lived up to their price tag imo - 26 million for Milner, 17 million for Kolarov, 11 million for Jerome Boateng, 16 million for Kolo Toure, and 32 million for Robinho though he wasn't a Mancini buy.

And also your criticism ignores the players who have performed better this season, or transfers who have come in and done well. Examples would be Bale (obviously), Lennon, Sandro, Dembele, Vertonghen, and Lloris. Walker's performances have improved of late as well.

I understand your point though re. AVB, obviously I've done a lot of thinking about him being a Spurs fan, and with respect I've probably analyzed his work much more thoroughly than you have. It's not because I like him or I'm being a wishful thinker that I'm arguing his case, but I see his strengths and weaknesses and I see where he wants to take the team, and I know that it is a transition that will take time, and that will require a reshuffling of the squad, but I believe in what he's doing. I also know a little bit about how things work within Spurs, and how players are signed, and I know which players AVB was opposed to signing. Tim Sherwood has a lot of influence on Daniel Levy, and together they were responsible for securing most of our transfers last summer, both the good and the not so good. No matter which manager came in our targets were not really going to change.