Three In Midfield

[TrueBlueMike]

I honestly think that Pellegrini hasnt got the courage to drop Yaya. When he is on his game, he is unplayable, but so far this season, I havent seen the same desire. Maybe he needs to sit out for a few weeks and compose himself after a troubled summer.

Fernando is coming back, so now is the perfect time to make the change, while we still have cover in the likes of Lampard and Milner to play alongside Fernandinho.

We need to be taking these European Nights by the scruff of the neck, dictating play and directing proceedings. I think regardless of who we play, Milner has to start somewhere on the pitch. His versatility just makes tweaking a formation, or changing tactics so much more simple, without having to resort to making changes.

 

[Pubteam Lomas]

It really isn't rocket science.
Playing 4(?) in midfield against a team like Roma was ridiculous, especially when the four are Toure, Silva, Navas and Fernandinho.
Milner should have started.
I had no problem with Navas actually, but we needed fernandinho, Yaya and Milner in there.
Last night was the reason for buying Fernando.

 

[gazinho]

We simply cannot afford to play a midfield 2 including Yaya and expect to get results against these good European sides, we get away with it in the league to an extent but put quite simply this problem has been recurring for 4 years now and has not been adressed.

To the poster who called it a tired old cliche im not sure Bayern, Barca, Madrid, Chelsea, Spain, Germany etc will agree with you, football has evolved and moved on from the late 90s, early 00s put simply, the best teams in the world all play with 1 focal point to their attack with runners off them

I'm not a fan of 442, but around November last year Pellegrini changed our formation slightly with one of the two forwards dropping deep into midfield when needed which is when our fortunes in the league started to change.

It took us until Dzeko went off to do this last night as up to that point, both he and Kun were mostly playing as 2 out and out strikers. When this change was effected, we took control of the match, but by this point time was rapidly running out and Roma started to play on the counter and adopted an attitude of 'what we have, we hold'.

Ultimately, I believe we shot ourselves in the foot on a night when we seemed strangely inferior to our usual selves. Do we have a mental block when it comes to the CL?

Totally agree mate, each and every one of us could last night see that Keita was getting all sorts of time and space on the ball, this is where the manager needed to tell 1 of either Aguero or Dzeko to sit on him when they had the ball and were trying to play out from the back, we should have just let their centre halfs have it as they did with Vinny and DeMichelis.

It saddens me to say that we will continue to be totally out of our depth in the champions league until we realise the glaring error of our ways, which hopefully will not be too late

 

[cibaman]

We played one up front in our last CL match at the Etihad against Bara and that didnt work any better. The lone striker never got into the game, Barca were able to push forward their defensive midfield players, we barely got out of our half. Playing one up front at home is fine provided we can switch from 4-5-1 to 4-3-3 when we are attacking. But we don't seem to have the players to do that. Hence we're usually poor when we play with a single striker at home.

Unlike say Chelsea where the lone striker is their standard approach and Schurlle and Hazard provide support for Costa. Its very obvious that Chelsea work hard at getting players in support of the striker. Its their system they're used to it.Our default system is two up front, the emphasis is different.

There's more to it than simply replacing a striker with a midfield player. The style of play and players would need to change. The style of play that gave us big wins against United, Spurs and Arsenal last season, Liverpool this, doesn't provide the right preparation and base for CL games. Ultimately, if we are to be successful in the CL we have to modify the way we play in the PL.

 

[BillyShears]

Can we please but this tired cliche to bed. Every week last season and seemingly every week this season people post "we better play three in midfield this week or we'll get overrun". We get overrun when the players don't do their jobs collectively at pressing when we don't have the ball.

In my eyes the ideal of the system we play is some sort of 4312 with one of the wide players stepping into the middle and the other stepping into the hole. Whether it's Silva/Nasri or Silva/Milner or Silva/Navas the jobs of all the players remain the same and they all have the tactical flexibility to play in all those positions in midfield.

Every top European team and pretty much every CL winning team for the last decade embraces this tired cliche

Mainly because top class forwards are the most expensive players on the market and it's rare that clubs find themselves with four of them and the capacity to rotate and still play two up top each week.

I believe when the players apply Pellegrini's system and do their jobs properly (as per Chelsea at home) then it is almost impossible for the opposition no matter how good they are to deal with us.

He is a vastly experienced deeply thoughtful manager and coach and I find it almost impossible to believe he just wakes up on each match day and goes "right, 442, lets fucking have them". There are subtleties to any system which the naked eye doesn't see and in particular the system we play is so complex at times that it bares little or no resemblance to the traditional 442.

 

[CityFan94]

I think the bigger problem is Yaya in a midfield 2.

This leads us to getting overrun nearly every game in the CL.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I honestly think that Pellegrini hasnt got the courage to drop Yaya. When he is on his game, he is unplayable, but so far this season, I havent seen the same desire. Maybe he needs to sit out for a few weeks and compose himself after a troubled summer.

Fernando is coming back, so now is the perfect time to make the change, while we still have cover in the likes of Lampard and Milner to play alongside Fernandinho.

We need to be taking these European Nights by the scruff of the neck, dictating play and directing proceedings. I think regardless of who we play, Milner has to start somewhere on the pitch. His versatility just makes tweaking a formation, or changing tactics so much more simple, without having to resort to making changes.

I can't think of one game where we have done this in the four seasons we have played in Europe. We did well in Madrid until the jitters set in, and in Munich last season, but we have never strangled the life out of a team, and the teams we are comparing ourselves to, have never had their arses well and truly bitten for ninety minutes.

 

[the god Gerry Gow]

Maybe proved wrong with stats but I get the impression we are not creating anywhere near as many chances as last season.

Occasionally this season I have sat there n thought how exactly do we intend to score

 

[TrueBlueMike]

I honestly think that Pellegrini hasnt got the courage to drop Yaya. When he is on his game, he is unplayable, but so far this season, I havent seen the same desire. Maybe he needs to sit out for a few weeks and compose himself after a troubled summer.

Fernando is coming back, so now is the perfect time to make the change, while we still have cover in the likes of Lampard and Milner to play alongside Fernandinho.

We need to be taking these European Nights by the scruff of the neck, dictating play and directing proceedings. I think regardless of who we play, Milner has to start somewhere on the pitch. His versatility just makes tweaking a formation, or changing tactics so much more simple, without having to resort to making changes.

I can't think of one game where we have done this in the four seasons we have played in Europe. We did well in Madrid until the jitters set in, and in Munich last season, but we have never strangled the life out of a team, and the teams we are comparing ourselves to, have never had their arses well and truly bitten for ninety minutes.

I think the Media doesn't help matters. They hype everything up, you hear nothing the week before apart from how the owners need a return on their investment, time is running out etc... And you can see it reflects the performance on the pitch. We are scared to play our natural game, we'd rather not lose than win!

 

[cibaman]

Can we please but this tired cliche to bed. Every week last season and seemingly every week this season people post "we better play three in midfield this week or we'll get overrun". We get overrun when the players don't do their jobs collectively at pressing when we don't have the ball.

In my eyes the ideal of the system we play is some sort of 4312 with one of the wide players stepping into the middle and the other stepping into the hole. Whether it's Silva/Nasri or Silva/Milner or Silva/Navas the jobs of all the players remain the same and they all have the tactical flexibility to play in all those positions in midfield.

Every top European team and pretty much every CL winning team for the last decade embraces this tired cliche

Mainly because top class forwards are the most expensive players on the market and it's rare that clubs find themselves with four of them and the capacity to rotate and still play two up top each week.

I believe when the players apply Pellegrini's system and do their jobs properly (as per Chelsea at home) then it is almost impossible for the opposition no matter how good they are to deal with us.

He is a vastly experienced deeply thoughtful manager and coach and I find it almost impossible to believe he just wakes up on each match day and goes "right, 442, lets fucking have them". There are subtleties to any system which the naked eye doesn't see and in particular the system we play is so complex at times that it bares little or no resemblance to the traditional 442.

The two striker option at the Etihad is fundamental to how we play, its ingrained in us. The big wins last season against United, Arsenal & Spurs, against Liverpool this season, were largely because their defenses couldn't cope with the space created by our two strikers. Even last night the penalty was won because Aguero was left one on one with Maicon, something that would never have happened if we had only been playing with one striker. The last time we started with a single striker at home was against Villa, a game that was 0-0 after an hour, at which point we brought on a 2nd striker.

442 isnt going to do it in the CL. But its not going to do it if we persist with two strikers at home in the PL but switch to one in the CL. Its too big a change, we would need to radically change our build up play to make it work. Its no more likely to work than if we play a back 4 in the PL, 3 at the back in the CL.

Chelsea will play 4-2-3-1 in nearly every game this season, home and away, PL and CL, The only exception would be if Costa is unavailable and they are playing away in a game when a point would do, in which case they might play a false 9. Mourinho will tinker with his side, might play Fabregas further forward in some games than other. But all of Mourinho's famed tactical flexibility will take place within the confines of a formation that works in any competition.

If we are to be successful in the CL we need to find a system that works in both competitions.