Tosin Adarabioyo

[WallyA]

I get that many, many posters think City need to throw a few players in at the deep end, but this is not your Granddad's Man City anymore. Rather, this is a team that literally needs to win silverware next year, and I'm not just talking about the League Cup! To do that, Mansour has opened the cheque book yet again to buy a versatile intl for every position and a spare for almost every other position. Even at the full back positions, we are looking for 4 current intls, because the Premier League, League Cup, FA Cup and the CL means two games per week every week, and even more over the key holiday period, so almost every position needs seamless rotation, rest and recuperation time. Personally, I'm not sure Tosin is ready to be a seamless squad member in a back two containing Kompany, Otamendi, Stones and Kolarov, even before we possibly buy a high priced A.N. Other. That said, if a decent bid came in for Ota or Kola, then he may have a chance to get some game time.

He is cultured, but young, and while I agree with the nugget "if you are good enough, you are old enough," but in City's "flying full backs" system, the center half position is a vital position and requires the ability to cover two positions at times. One year of quality football at a decent club in a decent league against canny (full grown men!) forwards will be significantly more helpful than training with the First Team Squad but only really playing with the EDS and u21s.

I don't think many people are arguing for throwing our EDS kids straight into the first team, I don't see how a 17/18 year old has a chance of being a squad player at one of the top teams in the world.

Instead, we (or atleast I) are advocating for giving the players who do well on loan the chance. As Neville above me mentions, Denayer was ripe for the picking, he should have been a squad player after playing men's football for Celtic, but we messed that up. Now, I don't think the loan to Turkey was necessarily bad (as he mentions) because he actually played well there, but the loan to Sunderland fucked him up and there is that thing with continually loaning a player isn't a huge confident booster.

One issue with the Sunderland loan for example, was that he was at an awful team, one could make the argument that as a defender that this is perfect because he will have to defend so much, but this wouldn't be the case at City, where he would have to defend and play a different way because he wouldn't be on the back foot for 90 mins. This is why the Celtic loan was great, he played for the best team and learned to play as a leader. This is why Roberts loans was so great, at Celtic he spent the vast majority of the time learning to attack (which is what City would be doing). Now Roberts is 20, and I'd argue ready for a squad role, this would also show youth can have a clear progression to the first team, EDS->(impress alot on loan)->squad player

 

[Neville Kneville]

I don't think many people are arguing for throwing our EDS kids straight into the first team, I don't see how a 17/18 year old has a chance of being a squad player at one of the top teams in the world.

Instead, we (or atleast I) are advocating for giving the players who do well on loan the chance. As Neville above me mentions, Denayer was ripe for the picking, he should have been a squad player after playing men's football for Celtic, but we messed that up. Now, I don't think the loan to Turkey was necessarily bad (as he mentions) because he actually played well there, but the loan to Sunderland fucked him up and there is that thing with continually loaning a player isn't a huge confident booster.

One issue with the Sunderland loan for example, was that he was at an awful team, one could make the argument that as a defender that this is perfect because he will have to defend so much, but this wouldn't be the case at City, where he would have to defend and play a different way because he wouldn't be on the back foot for 90 mins. This is why the Celtic loan was great, he played for the best team and learned to play as a leader. This is why Roberts loans was so great, at Celtic he spent the vast majority of the time learning to attack (which is what City would be doing). Now Roberts is 20, and I'd argue ready for a squad role, this would also show youth can have a clear progression to the first team, EDS->(impress alot on loan)->squad player

Denayer played in Turkey, but has looked sluggish imo since he came back. Looks two yards slower & basically unfit.

No reason Roberts shouldn't play a bit then be loaned half way if needed imo.

 

[Eslam elcity]

The main question now : What is the best club/place to loan Tosin ??
I prefer Celtic or a Bundesliga club !

 

[Bob Hope]

I think Girona would be a great loan for Tosin.

 

[doobyedoobye]

Is the plan that our best young talent who are not ready for 1st team action go to Girona from now on?

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I think there is barely ever an occasion when a place on the bench can't be given to an academy player, or even two, it's just whether the manager has the balls to do it. From that situation, it then becomes easy to find plenty of moments where such a player can get on the pitch, again, if the manager has the balls. Imo, we have had scores of such opportunities in the past 3-4 years & taken hardly any. From getting the kids on the pitch, you then find which ones might be worthy of more time, then which you can trust, etc.

^^^^^^This all day long. Thought that was what we were doing with Aleix Garcia, but looks like he is now being moved on, too.

One of the problems is going to be that we will need to keep 17-22 players happy, while winning almost every game. Even with top class talent, that is no mean feat. I'm just coming to the realization that this coming season is strictly about winning silverware, hopefully the League, and getting to the CL Quarters, at a minimum, and hopefully, Semis. Cup Competitions will be taken very seriously, because even a League Cup would take a little pressure off that first "win."

In the above environment, and after a preseason of buying world beaters, even getting on the bench is going to be hard for some internationals when everyone is fit, let alone the young guns! As they say in the States..."rich guy problem!"

 

[WallyA]

^^^^^^This all day long. Thought that was what we were doing with Aleix Garcia, but looks like he is now being moved on, too.

One of the problems is going to be that we will need to keep 17-22 players happy, while winning almost every game. Even with top class talent, that is no mean feat. I'm just coming to the realization that this coming season is strictly about winning silverware, hopefully the League, and getting to the CL Quarters, at a minimum, and hopefully, Semis. Cup Competitions will be taken very seriously, because even a League Cup would take a little pressure off that first "win."

In the above environment, and after a preseason of buying world beaters, even getting on the bench is going to be hard for some internationals when everyone is fit, let alone the young guns! As they say in the States..."rich guy problem!"

The club probably had every intention of wanting to give kids chances here or there but with a 22 player squad next season it won't be happening. I think Pep's comments about the kids and the realization from the club is that they will have to be loaned, and I'm including Sancho, Foden and Diaz, all 3 will likely be loaned with Diaz likely going somewhere next season.

It seems kind of sad, but if they can get the loans right (which is a big if) then it could be better than just giving them a few minutes here or there. The links with NAC and especially Girona will do wonders, Barca B only just got promoted to the Segunda Division, they were playing in the 3rd division for a while, so having our kids play in La Liga will be a massive boon.

I've been kind of swayed by this approach recently by seeing Real Madrid's loanees for example, seeing Asensio impressing in La Liga then coming back, and they have other great loanees in Marcos Llorente and Jesus Vallejo who are 22 and 20 respectively, with the rumours being Zidane wants to integrate them into the first team as squad players like Asensio.

If Girona can play a possession style similar to what Pep wants then I wouldn't be too upset to maybe see Sancho loaned there when he turns 18 and see if he can tear it up. Then bring him back at around 20 to replace Aguero (I'd assume Sanchez go striker, Sancho LW and Aguero probably won't be here after 3 years).

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Wally A,

Without delving into the details, I think you've hit the nail in the head...the quality of the youngsters coming through is stellar, but not quite the world class, ready-to-go players we need...yet! They need experience, not just talent, to break into a squad of the quality we are building, and only time and games in the tank can produce that.

Yes, there will always be a phenom who breaks the mould, but not every "star" on the U18 stage is going to be a Premier League player. We see it all the time, so I think the apprenticeship City is trying to give these players should be good for the player AND the club over the long term. At least, I am hoping it will, because that is exactly what the Academy is supposed to be doing.

With prices for players where they are (Walker for £50M?!) we only need to produce one First Team Squad player every few years, while selling on the second tier talent and moving them to other CFG clubs, to make the Academy yet another positive commercial operation for Mansour and the CFG.

 

[starsandstripes]

I have a feeling that we buy youth with zero intention of progressing them into the first team, but rather finding them good loans in order to sell them on with favorable buy-back clauses.

 

[WallyA]

I have a feeling that we buy youth with zero intention of progressing them into the first team, but rather finding them good loans in order to sell them on with favorable buy-back clauses.

I mean that only happened with Unal, the buyback clause, right? That's the most recent example I can think of, but it made sense because we were stacked in the striker position. It is possible we exercise the buyback in 2020 when Aguero leaves for example.

I don't think the club is advancing youth players just to sell, we are not a selling club, I think we are just waiting extra carefully to bring in someone who will be worth 50m+ in the future. I think it'll just take time, Roberts isn't from our academy, but I hope he is the first loanee to break in.