Train Fares Going Up Again

[pauldominic]

3% above inflation. Robbing bastards.

Some workers now paying 15% of their wages just to get there.

Why don't they move closer to where they work then?

That's a clarkie, right?

Nah. George Osborne is MP for NE Cheshire that has also had Neil Hamilton and Martin Bell for Tatton.

They use constituencies like these to parachute in MPs for a safe seat.

George has *no* interest in the concerns of people paying more for trains every year. When he rarely travels up north (guess I admit), he'll use the train to travel back and submit his expenses to the taxpayer.

 

[Rascal]

agree but getting the right management and the right type of unions is the key, my old man worked for GMB and then stagecoach and he admits that he preferred it under GMB because he didnt have to work as hard or as effectively

can a nationalised company be run with a private companies ethos? i'm not so sure

I dont think a public transport system has to be run like a private company, it has to be run for the good of all the people and not for profit. I believe if the ethos of the management was right and they were doing it to those terms the Unions would be on board as it would also suit there ends as in no cost cutting in the strive for profits therefore jobs are safer.

I just dont see why the public purse should be used to pay dividends and bonuses when that money could be used to lower fares.

 

[hilts]

agree but getting the right management and the right type of unions is the key, my old man worked for GMB and then stagecoach and he admits that he preferred it under GMB because he didnt have to work as hard or as effectively

can a nationalised company be run with a private companies ethos? i'm not so sure

I dont think a public transport system has to be run like a private company, it has to be run for the good of all the people and not for profit. I believe if the ethos of the management was right and they were doing it to those terms the Unions would be on board as it would also suit there ends as in no cost cutting in the strive for profits therefore jobs are safer.

I just dont see why the public purse should be used to pay dividends and bonuses when that money could be used to lower fares.

I meant in a way that profit would be used to either lower fares or improve service, im pretty sure the day to day running costs would increase if it was nationalsed

i know for instance that bus drivers have to watch their backs more now then when they worked for GMB and sickness levels are nowhere at the same levels as what they once were

the question is can a nationalised company be run as cost effectively as a private one, my feeling is one is good for the employee the other good for the shareholders but both not neccessarily good for the customer

if any of that makes sense

 

[stonerblue]

Ever been on a Polish train?

9 hours from Krakow to Poznan on a fucking horse and cart type train. It'd take 2 hours here at most. I do agree though, there's paying premium for faster trains and better service and then there's our prices and average service. Shocking.

Have you ever been to an away game and not mentioned it on here?

It wasn't for a City game you prick. I went to watch Ireland. So what? I watch football, that's what I do and love. I'm sure you have your own interests which you like to share with people. Besides, this was about the news about Virgin Trains so why did you pipe up?

Morons like you are ruining the forum with your bitter little digs.

Not surprised tolmie's hairdoo fucked off with snide berks like you.

that made me piss my sides.
Ta Liam.

 

[Rascal]

agree but getting the right management and the right type of unions is the key, my old man worked for GMB and then stagecoach and he admits that he preferred it under GMB because he didnt have to work as hard or as effectively

can a nationalised company be run with a private companies ethos? i'm not so sure

I dont think a public transport system has to be run like a private company, it has to be run for the good of all the people and not for profit. I believe if the ethos of the management was right and they were doing it to those terms the Unions would be on board as it would also suit there ends as in no cost cutting in the strive for profits therefore jobs are safer.

I just dont see why the public purse should be used to pay dividends and bonuses when that money could be used to lower fares.

I meant in a way that profit would be used to either lower fares or improve service, im pretty sure the day to day running costs would increase if it was nationalsed

i know for instance that bus drivers have to watch their backs more now then when they worked for GMB and sickness levels are nowhere at the same levels as what they once were

the question is can a nationalised company be run as cost effectively as a private one, my feeling is one is good for the employee the other good for the shareholders but both not neccessarily good for the customer

if any of that makes sense

Yes it does make sense. i do see it.

The problem with a privatised rail network is its profits are not used to improve the service, it paid as bonuses and dividends as the govt pick up the tab for any improvements on the network. The network is obviously limited and the govt will subsidise services that run at a loss such as the mental ghost trains.

Sickness levels are currently at an all time low, strikes are rare, if the unions were engaged in a meaningful manner i believe they cold help deliver a better service for all.

At the end of the day though, the rail system needs mass investent, we are so far behind the likes of France its embarrasing. A good way to try and boost the economy would be to invest in rail as the CBI acknowledge the UKs infrastructure is a barrier to growth. It would create jobs as well.

Beeching nearly destroyed our railways, but lots of the options are still there, look at the new metrolink line to east didsbury and its on old BR lines. Rail is better for the enviroment, it can be more cost effective and it can help relieve pressure on our road network as well.

We need far-sightedness in our transport policy instead of what i see as just a hunt for profit.

 

[tidyman]

Renationalise tommorrow.

Unfortunatly the Labour party havent the bollocks to say they would do it.

That's not strictly true.

They did SAY they were going to re-nationalise in their manifesto, the year Blair first got in.

Seemed to slip their minds during the following ten years though.

 

[Pieblue]

Someone asked "Surely the train companys dont rent the line" well yeah they do and this is the shambolic way private industry runs this industry.

Networkrail own the Infrastructure i.e. the track, signalling and associated parts and some Stations but not the majority. They own no rolling stock as they are not in the business of running trains, that’s for the TOC’s and FOC’s (Train operators and Freight operators)

Leaving aside the Billions of pounds they receive in government subsidies every control period one way of raising money for Networkrail is they lease the right to run trains on their track back to the TOC’s & FOC’s.

So depending on if the route is the West or East Coast main line or a little Branch line somewhere, will determine how much you pay to run your train on their Railway.

But now they need to maintain the railway, and railways need a massive amount of maintenance on a day to day level excluding any major renewals, but they have leased it to the TOC’s so they now have to lease it back.

So again depending on what bit of Railway you are leasing back will depend on how much you pay back to the TOC’s.

Also depending at what timescales you tell the TOC’s you want to come onto the railway and block it to trains will depend on how much compensation you pay them.

This is on a sliding scale with the maximum discount given if you tell the TOC’s 39 weeks out you will be blocking the railway, down to 12 weeks notice where you get no discount.

Which is why you cannot buy an advanced ticket farther out than 12 weeks as the TOC’s may not be able to honour that ticket.

Railways being railways maintenance is a never ending task and whilst the majority of work can be planned to timescales to reduce the cost to Network rail to maintain its own track, emergency’s happen all the time. This is not an unsafe railway as that has always been the case and defects are dealt with when they arise and can often be undertaken in previously arranged blocks. However when due to bad planning or a defect that must be repaired immediately such as a broken rail then the TOC’s make big money as they have already sold you your ticket and so they want compensating for you being pissed off by being put on a bus. They also want compensating a lot more than the combined cost of all the tickets they may have sold.

The business model that was used to apply for the East Coast mainline had factored in many millions of pounds in compensation for unplanned maintenance. That did not happen and they handed the Franchise back as they had reached a point where they had to start paying money back to the government for the franchise itself and they where not raking in compensation money to the level they had predicted.

Both Networkrail and the TOC’s have whole departments whose remit is to pay and claim back from each other, and other depts whose only job it is to blame each other for delays as delay attribution also carries compensation for one party or the other.

This explanation above is actually a very simplified view of the process and does not take into account many other factors including the renting of Rolling Stock from other 3rd parties so the Toc’s and FOC’s have trains to actually use.

It’s a bit like you giving your lad a train set for his Birthday but giving the track to run it on to his uncle.

Then giving the Trains to run on your lads track to the next door neighbour.

Then you giving money to your lad to rent the train from the next door neighbour and then additional money to rent the track to run the train on.

Now if anyone can tell me that that is a sensible way to run any service for the Public and that private ownership is preferable to public ownership under BR who owned the lot as an integrated railway and who if given the massive public subsidy’s that respective governments have given to Railtrack Networkrail and train operating company’s would have a railway to be proud of, I will show my arse on the town hall steps and no I never worked for BR so no agenda here.

Many thanks John Major, this dysfunctional system was your last gift to a grateful nation

 

[Rascal]

Thanks for that insight Pieblue

The system is crazier than i realised.

 

[Ducado]

Thanks for that insight Pieblue

The system is crazier than i realised.

It is that

 

[Vinjay]

They should be looking at the holes in their system (fare dodging due to tickets often going unchecked) before resorting to raising prices.