Training Ground work bearing obvious fruit

[OB1]

If we are full strength anything could happen against Barca. They won't live with passing and movement like that.

Been keeping a keen eye on Barca this season for various reasons. I suppose that it's not the done thing to be confident about playing "big" teams. However I am. I think we'll beat Barca over two legs, surprisingly more comfortably than people think. The only thing that could scupper that is injuries or poor officiating (which is always possible in the CL).

Cleavers your post is spot on too. One of the many things which is being said retrospectively is just what a shambles West Ham were. Really? Because half an hour into the game I was thinking "this is a proper game". West Ham didn't roll over - we were just so fucking good that they got dizzy and exhausted. It's not a joke to say my missus actually turned to me during the second half and said that "I'm getting dizzy. Is it normal for them to pass the ball like that".

I usually watch a lot of Barca but, for various reasons, have managed to miss all their recent games (I do have last night and part of Sunday's game recorded) so I am not as current as I would normally be. However, I saw plenty of their early season games and I do think that we have a good chance of beating them over two legs but we should not for one moment under estimate them; especially with Messi back.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Said the same several pages ago, I'm fed up hearing that club x were awful, its not how poor the other team are, its how poor we're making them look.

West Ham started confident last night, and (unlike a normal allardyce team) tried to come at us, we allowed them for a short time, sucking them in, and then ironically hit them with the sort of route 1 goal that allardyce himself would have been very proud of, and from that moment on they never got a look in, at half time as they trudged off you could see they were a bit shell shocked We then scored 2 more in the first 15 minutes of the second half and completely demoralised them. It wasn't just our pass and move football but the quality of the goals scored as well. As performances go it was pretty well perfect, we may match it again, but I'll be surprised if we can play better as a team, and when you look who we were missing last night, that says an awful lot.

Exactly mate. It was the perfect performance. And we managed to rest Fernandinho who must need it more than anyone. Nastasic is fresh, Silva and Yaya have not been overplayed, Hart's back, and best of all...Sergio to come.

If we are full strength anything could happen against Barca. They won't live with passing and movement like that.

Have we actually fielded our best team yet this season? The answer to that depends in part on what you think our best team is; although I think the only positions in the best 11 that are debatable are the left side of the defence.

I'm not even sure we have fielded our best team. I think it more or less picks itself now, but you're right, it's horses for courses at left sided centre half: Nasty for the less physical teams, Lescott the others. I thought Clichy was superb again last night and he's still my first choice left back.

 

[Chris in London]

I'll counter that by saying a shooting Edin Dzeko is a confident Edin Dzeko, so I hope he keeps it up, he'll score a few and miss a few, but if he's happy and playing with a smile on his face then its only to our benefit, he certainly played with a smile last night.

Disagree. I think it's pretty disgraceful that in a team where every one of our attacking players is drilled in looking for the pass and taking it when it's on, Edin regularly hammers long shots into nowhere (much like Kolarov). Last night I counted eight I think with not a single one hitting the target and most of them being way off.

I realise it sounds like I'm being over harsh - but for me the easiest thing to do playing in our team is picking the right option because fellow attackers provide so many of them. For him to so regularly take the wrong one speaks to his continued need to try and prove something to someone when he should play like Negredo - ie. for the team.

Apologies for the Dzeko interlude.

If you get a chance to watch the game again keep an eye on Nasri's reaction to poor passes and a couple of his shots.

I think it's best summed up with "FFS".

And that comes from the appreciation within the team that they can and do play sublime football so there is no need to hit and hope.

I'm with Cleavers on this. A benchmark is I think is that thumping strike away at Cardiff which followed the really good pre-season Dzeko had. He seems to have lost a fair a bit of confidence as he drifted out of the team and Negredo overtook him in terms of the starting XI. To see him going back to that 'shoot on sight' policy to my mind speaks volumes about how much happier and confident he is now. Some of that will no doubt be due to the fact that he is having a run of games while Kun is injured, but I think it is naive to think that a big part of it is not related to how he and a number of other players have bought in to what Pellegrini is doing, are seeing the benefits of what Pellegrini is doing and are much happier for it.

I'd agree with Billy that there are times when Dzeko shooting on sight is less than ideal in terms of the options available at any given moment in the game, but the fact that he is a lot more confident and happy about his game is to my mind a more important factor than whether he makes the right decision to pass or shoot. With a happy confident player choosing the right option will come more and more as the training ground work pays off. We are still at an early stage of Pellegrini's progress, and I think it is important to remember we are still a work in progress. I'm delighted that we obviously have a happy team that is enjoying its training and its football in the midst of winter and a fixture pile up.

Nasri is another one who seems to be enjoying his football a lot more and as many have said we are seeing the player we signed from Arsenal. There were some signs earlier in the season that Nasri was really enjoying his football, and we are seeing the benefits of that with some truly fantastic performances - like last night. The last time I can remember enjoying watching a midfield pair as much as Silva and Nasri was when we had Benarbia and Berkowitz in tandem in Keegan's promotion season - two really talented playmakers whose football really was a joy to watch. Only Silva and Nasri are tons better.

 

[Ray78]

Still there are a few minor tweaks have to be made during the rest of this season but the changes that had been made already the team is getting the benefit of fresh ideas at the club. Nasri being one of the players given a new lease of life by the different approach. By the start of next season we will be a lot stronger in terms of our experience of playing as a team and squad quality.

 

[OB1]

Exactly mate. It was the perfect performance. And we managed to rest Fernandinho who must need it more than anyone. Nastasic is fresh, Silva and Yaya have not been overplayed, Hart's back, and best of all...Sergio to come.

If we are full strength anything could happen against Barca. They won't live with passing and movement like that.

Have we actually fielded our best team yet this season? The answer to that depends in part on what you think our best team is; although I think the only positions in the best 11 that are debatable are the left side of the defence.

I'm not even sure we have fielded our best team. I think it more or less picks itself now, but you're right, it's horses for courses at left sided centre half: Nasty for the less physical teams, Lescott the others. I thought Clichy was superb again last night and he's still my first choice left back.

I thought Clichy was very good last night and was especially pleased to see him drive forward and put in a decent low cross for Dzeko's first. Wish he would do that more.

I am actually undecided between Clichy and Kolarov at the moment, which I never expected to say, and do think the choice depends on the opponent.

I see Nasty as clearly the better player to Lescott - although I agree there is a case for Lescott against some teams. However, I do like Demichelis and the Kompany / Demichelis pairing. If all four CB's stay fit, I will be interested to see who partners Vinnie the most.

Great opening post btw.

 

[Anonymous]

However, I saw plenty of their early season games and I do think that we have a good chance of beating them over two legs but we should not for one moment under estimate them; especially with Messi back.

It's not about underestimating them for me. If anything I've always been a little in awe of the current generation of Barcelona players and their team. I just think that right now they're coming to the end of a cycle whereas we're beginning one. Yes Messi will be dangerous. But frankly, if you look at the makeshift nature of Barca's back 4 ... they should be absolutely shitting themselves at the prospect of our attacking players running at them.

On your post above ... for me our best CB pairing is MD and VK. Harsh on nasty and lescott I know but the fact MD slotted into midfield last night is exactly why he should be picked ahead of the other two. He's a footballer with a footballer's brain.

I take everyones points about Edin. I've definitely got a downer on him at present - although last night improved that to some degree even if his potshots from range did bother me.

BTW ... not sure if anyone else caught but for Edin's last goal ... he goes running to Kola to celebrates and on the French coverage you clearly saw him say "I thought you were going to shoot". Made me laugh.

 

[cleavers]

I thought Clichy was very good last night and was especially pleased to see him drive forward and put in a decent low cross for Dzeko's first. Wish he would do that more.

This is another situation that has been managed well, like Nasri, if we had sold Kolorov last summer, I would have been delighted, I didn't either added much to us last season, so to have to eat my words on both players is a pleasure, they have both been excellent. Clichy last night looked like he had benefitted from his break from the team, and its the most attacking I've seen him, early in the game he had Downing get past him a couple of times, but then took the game to, and past Downing, who virtually disappeared, not that he's a player I've ever rated, but he can be dangerous if gets at Clichy didn't allow it. The fact we now gave genuine defensive competition down our left side is very much down to Pellegrini's managing of the situation, and I think Kolorov has benefited from being played left midfield a few times.

 

[Chris in London]

I thought Clichy was very good last night and was especially pleased to see him drive forward and put in a decent low cross for Dzeko's first. Wish he would do that more.

This is another situation that has been managed well, like Nasri, if we had sold Kolorov last summer, I would have been delighted, I didn't either added much to us last season, so to have to eat my words on both players is a pleasure, they have both been excellent. Clichy last night looked like he had benefitted from his break from the team, and its the most attacking I've seen him, early in the game he had Downing get past him a couple of times, but then took the game to, and past Downing, who virtually disappeared, not that he's a player I've ever rated, but he can be dangerous if gets at Clichy didn't allow it. The fact we now gave genuine defensive competition down our left side is very much down to Pellegrini's managing of the situation, and I think Kolorov has benefited from being played left midfield a few times.

A propos of nothing, I remember Downing being interviewed when we had just beaten Boro at their place - I think it was in Emile Mpenza's heyday. We were fighting relegation and even though he had just lost Downing said 'they are a poor team and it's easy to see why they are in the position they are in'. I thought at the time he was a bitter arrogant twat and I have never liked him since. Every anonymous Downing performance I've seen at the Etihad (i.e. all of them) has given me a small dollop of satisfaction.

 

[fbloke]

I thought Clichy was very good last night and was especially pleased to see him drive forward and put in a decent low cross for Dzeko's first. Wish he would do that more.

This is another situation that has been managed well, like Nasri, if we had sold Kolorov last summer, I would have been delighted, I didn't either added much to us last season, so to have to eat my words on both players is a pleasure, they have both been excellent. Clichy last night looked like he had benefitted from his break from the team, and its the most attacking I've seen him, early in the game he had Downing get past him a couple of times, but then took the game to, and past Downing, who virtually disappeared, not that he's a player I've ever rated, but he can be dangerous if gets at Clichy didn't allow it. The fact we now gave genuine defensive competition down our left side is very much down to Pellegrini's managing of the situation, and I think Kolorov has benefited from being played left midfield a few times.

A propos of nothing, I remember Downing being interviewed when we had just beaten Boro at their place - I think it was in Emile Mpenza's heyday. We were fighting relegation and even though he had just lost Downing said 'they are a poor team and it's easy to see why they are in the position they are in'. I thought at the time he was a bitter arrogant twat and I have never liked him since. Every anonymous Downing performance I've seen at the Etihad (i.e. all of them) has given me a small dollop of satisfaction.

Living in the N.E. I have quite a few Boro fans as neighbours and friends and to say that they made a lot of noise for a while after the 8-1 would be something of an understatement.

You can imagine how I have enjoyed the last few seasons a little bit more than them. And guess what, they dont mention that game any more.

 

[Manchester_lalala]

Brilliant post op. Last night is the best performance I've ever seen from a city side. I know west ham are on a bit of a low but the football was jaw dropping. About 35 minutes in there was about 30 seconds of passing where yaya, silva and Nasri took the piss out of west ham, it was like a hovering triangle.

 

[Ducado]

You can see that some of the moves have been practised and they are getting better at them.

It's important to remember that we will have bad games as well as good, and when we do the sky is not falling in, it's just one of those things every garden needs a bit of rain!

 

[Blue Haze]

Great post, DD.

The biggest change has been width and scoring from wide positions. Before we would see 9 defenders clumped in the middle and still insist on trying to score through this mob of bodies. Now we just go around them or hit them on the break.

Scary thing is, we can still do better when you think about what positions we could improve in the transfer window.

 

[OB1]

However, I saw plenty of their early season games and I do think that we have a good chance of beating them over two legs but we should not for one moment under estimate them; especially with Messi back.

It's not about underestimating them for me. If anything I've always been a little in awe of the current generation of Barcelona players and their team. I just think that right now they're coming to the end of a cycle whereas we're beginning one. Yes Messi will be dangerous. But frankly, if you look at the makeshift nature of Barca's back 4 ... they should be absolutely shitting themselves at the prospect of our attacking players running at them.

On your post above ... for me our best CB pairing is MD and VK. Harsh on nasty and lescott I know but the fact MD slotted into midfield last night is exactly why he should be picked ahead of the other two. He's a footballer with a footballer's brain.

I take everyones points about Edin. I've definitely got a downer on him at present - although last night improved that to some degree even if his potshots from range did bother me.

BTW ... not sure if anyone else caught but for Edin's last goal ... he goes running to Kola to celebrates and on the French coverage you clearly saw him say "I thought you were going to shoot". Made me laugh.

I'm sure Barca's defence is not relishing the idea of facing us.

Oh and I agreed with an earlier comment you made about how Pepesque we looked. There was one piece of play early on in the game on our right flank, that was passsing and movement of such speed that it almost took my breath away.

Edin is simply the most frustrating player that I think I have ever watched.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Great post, DD.

The biggest change has been width and scoring from wide positions. Before we would see 9 defenders clumped in the middle and still insist on trying to score through this mob of bodies. Now we just go around them or hit them on the break.

Scary thing is, we can still do better when you think about what positions we could improve in the transfer window.

We can certainly improve. I don't even think we have had our best eleven out all season. There have always been a couple of big absences.

 

[OB1]

I thought Clichy was very good last night and was especially pleased to see him drive forward and put in a decent low cross for Dzeko's first. Wish he would do that more.

This is another situation that has been managed well, like Nasri, if we had sold Kolorov last summer, I would have been delighted, I didn't either added much to us last season, so to have to eat my words on both players is a pleasure, they have both been excellent. Clichy last night looked like he had benefitted from his break from the team, and its the most attacking I've seen him, early in the game he had Downing get past him a couple of times, but then took the game to, and past Downing, who virtually disappeared, not that he's a player I've ever rated, but he can be dangerous if gets at Clichy didn't allow it. The fact we now gave genuine defensive competition down our left side is very much down to Pellegrini's managing of the situation, and I think Kolorov has benefited from being played left midfield a few times.

Agreed.

There were a couple of moments where it looked like Downing might get away from Clichy but Gael stormed back and stopped him; which gave me some added pleasure as Downing is a player that I have a real downer on.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

I wouldn't call West Ham stubborn or defensive, just shit.

Good OP otherwise, not quite there yet defensively as shown by our lack of clean sheets but hopefully that will continue to improve in general feel over the season. The rest you're pretty spot on with.

 

[OB1]

You can see that some of the moves have been practised and they are getting better at them.

It's important to remember that we will have bad games as well as good, and when we do the sky is not falling in, it's just one of those things every garden needs a bit of rain!

Absolutely.

We've won nothing yet but we have not lost anything either (as in trophies).

 

[SWP's back]

I wouldn't call West Ham stubborn or defensive, just shit.

Good OP otherwise, not quite there yet defensively as shown by our lack of clean sheets but hopefully that will continue to improve in general feel over the season. The rest you're pretty spot on with.

You don't average 4 at home every game and expect a clean sheet every game.

The highline exposes the defence but in doing so, squeezes the opposition into their half and allows our midfield and forwards to pressure the ball and win back possession. It's a risk strategy but has big rewards. Look at the GD column rather than goals against and judge against the other sides in the league if it is working.

 

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

I wouldn't call West Ham stubborn or defensive, just shit.

Good OP otherwise, not quite there yet defensively as shown by our lack of clean sheets but hopefully that will continue to improve in general feel over the season. The rest you're pretty spot on with.

Didn't we have a bet pre season regarding west ham????

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

I wouldn't call West Ham stubborn or defensive, just shit.

Good OP otherwise, not quite there yet defensively as shown by our lack of clean sheets but hopefully that will continue to improve in general feel over the season. The rest you're pretty spot on with.

You don't average 4 at home every game and expect a clean sheet every game.

The highline exposes the defence but in doing so, squeezes the opposition into their half and allows our midfield and forwards to pressure the ball and win back possession. It's a risk strategy but has big rewards. Look at the GD column rather than goals against and judge against the other sides in the league if it is working.

I know, I don't expect a clean sheet every game either, but on the GD point, it's true for most games but you can have a GD 5 better than your rivals but if the 4 extra in the conceded column were the goals v Cardiff and Villa that cost us in reality 6 points then the GD column means little unless the points column is up there, so not conceding is just as important as scoring loads for that 1 or 2 games where you don't score many i.e. Palace, where we did well to keep a clean sheet and Joe played very well. At home it's not an issue really but away it is more so, and these 3-2's, whilst they are much better now we're winning them, are still a bit uncomfortable compared to say a solid 2-0, so I don't think we're quite there yet on the defending.<br /><br />-- Jan 9th, '14, 19:14 --<br /><br />

I wouldn't call West Ham stubborn or defensive, just shit.

Good OP otherwise, not quite there yet defensively as shown by our lack of clean sheets but hopefully that will continue to improve in general feel over the season. The rest you're pretty spot on with.

Didn't we have a bet pre season regarding west ham????

Didn't you once say the man from Spain "he said yes"???

If we had a bet and you can find it then I'll happily fulfill it, you ain't ever going to fulfill me on Villa or Torres or whoever it was back then ;P.