Trouble in Belfast

[BlueHammer85]

Not saying the fact it was voted means it was correct but it means you have to accept the decisions of parties democratically elected until such a time when you can vote to replace them. That's how it works. You can't just reverse a vote because a small minority are unhappy with the decision. It is the minority as well. The majority in Northern Ireland are embarrassed by this.

So all minorities must accept the decisions of majorities?

Where politics are concerned yes. Anyway Protestants aren't the minority. This is just a minority of Protestants.

Civilisation at its best when minorities accept democratic decisions. Who enforces them in the real world ? And which minorities must accept ? Gay people in the Church ? Jews in Nazi Germany ? Copts in Egypt? Mec you are right.

It's a symbol of the Union and the act of taking it down was deliberate, had an agenda and was in full knowledge of what would happen. But as with all political acts, where does it lead?

 

[johnmc]

Civilisation at its best when minorities accept democratic decisions. Who enforces them in the real world ? And which minorities must accept ? Gay people in the Church ? Jews in Nazi Germany ? Copts in Egypt? Mec you are right.

It's a symbol of the Union and the act of taking it down was deliberate, had an agenda and was in full knowledge of what would happen. But as with all political acts, where does it lead?

Why do you keep mentioning minorities - the people who might be upset by this are Unionists/Protestants yet only a small enclave are offended. So because this small enclave of the majority in the country disagreee with the decision it should be reversed. Does that not set a dangerous precedent. Any decision made where 500 people riot will lead to the decisin being reversed?? The decision was made for the greater good of the population - the fact that it put a few noses out of joint is irrelevant.

You analogy with Nazi's is ridiculous.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Here's another good, if long, article worth reading

<a class="postlink" href="http://alwayswaking.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/the-troubles-with-northern-ireland.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://alwayswaking.blogspot.co.uk/2013 ... eland.html</a>

Do read the previous articles i posted, they are very representative of everyone i know. Granted thats not the entire population of NI...but i would like to think the vast majority of decent thinking people here

 

[BlueHammer85]

Civilisation at its best when minorities accept democratic decisions. Who enforces them in the real world ? And which minorities must accept ? Gay people in the Church ? Jews in Nazi Germany ? Copts in Egypt? Mec you are right.

It's a symbol of the Union and the act of taking it down was deliberate, had an agenda and was in full knowledge of what would happen. But as with all political acts, where does it lead?

Why do you keep mentioning minorities - the people who might be upset by this are Unionists/Protestants yet only a small enclave are offended. So because this small enclave of the majority in the country disagreee with the decision it should be reversed. Does that not set a dangerous precedent. Any decision made where 500 people riot will lead to the decisin being reversed?? The decision was made for the greater good of the population - the fact that it put a few noses out of joint is irrelevant.

You analogy with Nazi's is ridiculous.

I used no analogies but was referring to a recent historical example where a minority was persecuted by a 'democratic' majority. You don't like it, then there are others: I merely cite the most notorious.

Also, how is taking a flag down 'for the greater good'?

 

[johnmc]

I used no analogies but was referring to a recent historical example where a minority was persecuted by a 'democratic' majority. You don't like it, then there are others: I merely cite the most notorious.

Also, how is taking a flag down 'for the greater good'?

These group of rioters do not represent a minority as you are alluding to though. They are a minority of Unionists, with Unionists being the majority in the country.

So it is nothing like a minority as you put it - if Jews in power agreed to a democratic decision but some Jews within the community disagreed then you have a valid connection, but I doubt any Jews would agree with any Nazi policies.

The removal of the flag is for the long term good of the country - to treat both factions equally and fairly.

So say the flag goes up and 200 nationalists riot to get it removed again - what should they do then?

 

[dazdon]

Would both flags be banned?

I don't even know why i'm asking because the idiots deserve all they're getting from each other.

 

[mammutly]

So say the flag goes up and 200 nationalists riot to get it removed again - what should they do then?

That would be a minority of a minority rather than a minority of a majority. However, the war would go on and for the minority of the majority and of the minority that would be exactly what they'd like to see happen.

Which is exactly why minority opinion should never replace democracy.

 

[BlueHammer85]

I used no analogies but was referring to a recent historical example where a minority was persecuted by a 'democratic' majority. You don't like it, then there are others: I merely cite the most notorious.

Also, how is taking a flag down 'for the greater good'?

These group of rioters do not represent a minority as you are alluding to though. They are a minority of Unionists, with Unionists being the majority in the country.

So it is nothing like a minority as you put it - if Jews in power agreed to a democratic decision but some Jews within the community disagreed then you have a valid connection, but I doubt any Jews would agree with any Nazi policies.

The removal of the flag is for the long term good of the country - to treat both factions equally and fairly.

So say the flag goes up and 200 nationalists riot to get it removed again - what should they do then?

I have clearly been laboring under the delusion that Unionists are in a minority on the Belfast City Council and that they had been subjected to a political decision by the non-unionists who took their decision in the full knowledge that by so doing they would open Pandora's box. But since the Unionists are in the majority there will be no problem.

Democracy does not mean 'we are in the saddle now so Nyah - you do what we say'. The tyranny of a majority sets off trouble in many world trouble spots, the Druze in Lebanon, the Moslems in Kosovo, the Roma in Rumania. Democracy is about the building of bridges so that society may progress with the consent of the majority - and the minority. If you deliberately set out to injure the sacred cows of the minority then you do not serve that process- you injure it. Democracy is just a slogan and nothing more. It's the interpretation of it that moves ideas and actions and some interpretations are better than others.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

I dont really know what youre asking Mark.

One thing i can answer is that yes, to limit the days the Union Flag is flown is for the greater good of the country as we, the population of this country all agreed (82% vote) that we would move forward with a shared future...giving concession to one another.

If you change terminology if reads differently...the flag isnt being taken down, its only going up on certain days. As it does on the mainland.

 

[Franny Lee's Barrel Chest]

I was in Belfast over the weekend.

Like someone else said, all they're doing is bringing the flag protocol into line with the rest of the UK and that it was an all party democratic agreement.

It's simply an excuse to do some kicking off, frankly.

One suggestion has been to fly both Union Flag and the tricolour from the building, but somehow I can't see that happening.

Why do these "Loyalists" feel the need to fly Union Flags from every lamp post in the street, even in predominantly catholic areas? We don't do that over here do we? It's simply an act of provocation by small minded youths.

The main protests are peaceful and outside city hall but you only hear about the violence over here. Those main protesters are simply trying to make their point, as is their right, but these idiots in the masks and attacking the cops aren't the slightest bit interested in the flag, they're just out to cause trouble.