mick10
Well-Known Member
St Helens Blue (Exiled) said:
That's because IT'S NOT OVER A FLAG|
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Trouble in Belfast
- Thread starter davymcfc
- Start date
That's because IT'S NOT OVER A FLAG|
St Helens Blue (Exiled)
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 5 May 2011
- Messages
- 13,603
mick10 said:St Helens Blue (Exiled) said:A riot over a fucking flag.
I will never ever get it.
That's because IT'S NOT OVER A FLAG|
Oh right - So the news being reported is incorrect! I thought they were rioting over the number of days the Union Jack is allowed to be flown at Belfast city hall after councillors voted to limit the days it is flown.
So yes they are rioting over the flying of a flag. Fuck me.I'd hate for them to have anything serious to worry about!
johnmc
Well-Known Member
The rioting is over a flag but I think even the people doing the rioting realise this is stupid so are saying it goes deeper and is about human rights and being left behind in the benefits provided by the Good Friday agreement.
But really its about a flag.
But really its about a flag.
mick10
Well-Known Member
St Helens Blue (Exiled) said:mick10 said:St Helens Blue (Exiled) said:A riot over a fucking flag.
I will never ever get it.
That's because IT'S NOT OVER A FLAG|
Oh right - So the news being reported is incorrect! I thought they were rioting over the number of days the Union Jack is allowed to be flown at Belfast city hall after councillors voted to limit the days it is flown.
So yes they are rioting over the flying of a flag. Fuck me.I'd hate for them to have anything serious to worry about!
The catalyst for this was the decision over the flag but the ongoing trouble isn't. You're one of quite a few lads on here I like as posters so I'm not going to get into a row about this. I don't comment on issues in Manchester, and do you know why? Because I was born and bred in North Belfast and I simply don't know enough about Manchester (though I've been in it hundreds of times) and have spent a lot of time in England |(army). The issues in this country go way further than flags, that's just naivety on your part. Do I agree with the rioting? Do I fuck,I'd never squeeze it in between work and the family :) however there's been a big breakdown of relations between certain sections in Belfast and the police force, that is now what is driving the trouble. As far as the news! Come on they'll say anything that makes life easy and well you know it. The vote on the flag being flown. A section of these 'councillors' wanted it removed completely another,the status quo maintained (which would have resulted in no trouble in the province,as it had been flying for decades and no one cared) and finally the minority party who wanted to meet in the middle ground and fly only on designated days (good idea). Bamm!! Kick off :( Don't know if you've ever been in N.I. but we really don't hate each other as some of you think. Idiots? Get them everywhere and they happen to be on the streets at the moment mores the pity. Don't know when it'll end now and having grown up throught the troubles in the 70's I certainly wouldn't want any return to those days.
God it would take forever to try to explain but it's not just about a flag,really it isn't.
johnmc
Well-Known Member
mick10 said:God it would take forever to try to explain but it's not just about a flag,really it isn't.
Thats just the standard response though isnt it. Everyone knows the troubles run deep over there and there is a lot of history and reasons behind a lot of things that unless your from there you might not understand. I get that.
But you have said there that if the flag was allowed to continue to fly there would be no issues. But there are issues and your part of the world needs change to get past these issues and aim to heal problems of the past. You can not continue with the "status quo" because these deep ingrained issues will always be there if thats the case. I believe the majority of your country want change in order to forge a better future.
The fact of the matter is the flag issue has kicked off these riots. Similar to the riots over here you might say there were underlying issues to those ie no jobs for the young, removal of the weekly money students were getting, uni fees etc. But it was kicked off over the shooting of an unarmed man. As you have said already if the flag was allowed to fly as it has done there would be no riots so you are admitting the flag issue has a major factor.
mick10
Well-Known Member
johnmc said:mick10 said:God it would take forever to try to explain but it's not just about a flag,really it isn't.
Thats just the standard response though isnt it. Everyone knows the troubles run deep over there and there is a lot of history and reasons behind a lot of things that unless your from there you might not understand. I get that.
But you have said there that if the flag was allowed to continue to fly there would be no issues. But there are issues and your part of the world needs change to get past these issues and aim to heal problems of the past. You can not continue with the "status quo" because these deep ingrained issues will always be there if thats the case. I believe the majority of your country want change in order to forge a better future.
The fact of the matter is the flag issue has kicked off these riots. Similar to the riots over here you might say there were underlying issues to those ie no jobs for the young, removal of the weekly money students were getting, uni fees etc. But it was kicked off over the shooting of an unarmed man. As you have said already if the flag was allowed to fly as it has done there would be no riots so you are admitting the flag issue has a major factor.
It never had an issue before it was removed. Don't be under some illusion that there was endless letters and requests to remove it, there wasn't. Flags fly all over the place in Belfast this is politics in N.I. and stems from two very opposing factions. As far as the majority wants peace that really goes without saying. The removal of the flag has caused trouble I never tried to deny that .What I said it was it was the catalyst that set it off. Fragile politics I'm sorry to say. The social issues should be addressed well before any flag ones but that's unfortunately going to take another generation or 3. :(
johnmc
Well-Known Member
mick10 said:It never had an issue before it was removed. Don't be under some illusion that there was endless letters and requests to remove it, there wasn't. Flags fly all over the place in Belfast this is politics in N.I. and stems from two very opposing factions. As far as the majority wants peace that really goes without saying. The removal of the flag has caused trouble I never tried to deny that .What I said it was it was the catalyst that set it off. Fragile politics I'm sorry to say. The social issues should be addressed well before any flag ones but that's unfortunately going to take another generation or 3. :(
Im not under an illusion that there were petitions to remove it but as I understand the decision was made to bring the flag arrangements in line with the main land? So why is there such an uproar when the arrangements for the flag are the same as in London? I agree the polictics over there are very fragile and will be for some time.
But just because there wasnt an issue previously doesnt mean things cant be changed where it is seen for the long time good. I personally would ban hanging any flag from any public lampost and ban the painting of any public curbstones - unless you can tell me any acceptable reason why this should be allowed. They just seek to atagonise the other side - whichever side you are on.
mick10
Well-Known Member
johnmc said:mick10 said:It never had an issue before it was removed. Don't be under some illusion that there was endless letters and requests to remove it, there wasn't. Flags fly all over the place in Belfast this is politics in N.I. and stems from two very opposing factions. As far as the majority wants peace that really goes without saying. The removal of the flag has caused trouble I never tried to deny that .What I said it was it was the catalyst that set it off. Fragile politics I'm sorry to say. The social issues should be addressed well before any flag ones but that's unfortunately going to take another generation or 3. :(
Im not under an illusion that there were petitions to remove it but as I understand the decision was made to bring the flag arrangements in line with the main land? So why is there such an uproar when the arrangements for the flag are the same as in London? I agree the polictics over there are very fragile and will be for some time.
But just because there wasnt an issue previously doesnt mean things cant be changed where it is seen for the long time good. I personally would ban hanging any flag from any public lampost and ban the painting of any public curbstones - unless you can tell me any acceptable reason why this should be allowed. They just seek to atagonise the other side - whichever side you are on.
The decision to fly the flag on designated days was nothing to do with the mainland or any city in the UK it seemed to be an option when the decision was debated and implemented. In my previous post you will see I agree with the designated days. The Union flag doesn't fly 24/7 in military barracks and no need to over the City Hall in Belfast. As far as banning the flying of flags on lamposts and the painting of kerb stones etc........if only,however that is another issue and in honesty much better than it used to be.
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Anonymous
Guest
Really interesting thread.
Mick, you say about the flag being removed etc. Why does anyone feel the need to fly it in the first place? If you look at many, many civic buildings on the mainland there are loads that don't bother flying it at all and we don't need to protest about it?
It's either insecurity or a need to assert authority in my very humble and simplistic opinion.
Mick, you say about the flag being removed etc. Why does anyone feel the need to fly it in the first place? If you look at many, many civic buildings on the mainland there are loads that don't bother flying it at all and we don't need to protest about it?
It's either insecurity or a need to assert authority in my very humble and simplistic opinion.
johnmc
Well-Known Member
mick10 said:The decision to fly the flag on designated days was nothing to do with the mainland or any city in the UK it seemed to be an option when the decision was debated and implemented. In my previous post you will see I agree with the designated days. The Union flag doesn't fly 24/7 in military barracks and no need to over the City Hall in Belfast. As far as banning the flying of flags on lamposts and the painting of kerb stones etc........if only,however that is another issue and in honesty much better than it used to be.
Well in that case I am misinformed and apologise. As you quite rightly say unless you live there it is difficult to understand and as I dont, I can only offer comment rather than anything else. As you say the issues run deep and in essence is more than just a flag. To the outside world though it looks this way and does your beautiful country no good in the eyes of the world.