Trouble in Belfast

[mick10]

Really interesting thread.

Mick, you say about the flag being removed etc. Why does anyone feel the need to fly it in the first place? If you look at many, many civic buildings on the mainland there are loads that don't bother flying it at all and we don't need to protest about it?

It's either insecurity or a need to assert authority in my very humble and simplistic opinion.

I don't think I feel I need it flown but it is the Union flag and Belfast is the capitol of N.I. and the City Hall was always the main building there prior to Stormont being formed again. There I think may lay the problem the position of power (or at least the building) has moved. You can't compare anywhere on the mainland to N.I. totally different politics and people. You don't need to protest about it there's no one trying to remove it.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

A riot over a fucking flag.

I will never ever get it.

That's because IT'S NOT OVER A FLAG|

No - it's because a few sectarian idiots on both sides seem intent on perpetuating religious hatred to further their own warped agendas,whereas the rest of Britain has moved on from trying to re-enact 300 year old wars and learned to live with our differences in peace,as I'm sure the majority in Northern Ireland would do,given half a chance free of these throwbacks.
My late parents were both Irish,though born south of the border though,so I'm not altogether sure if this entitles me to an opinion or not.

 

[mick10]

The decision to fly the flag on designated days was nothing to do with the mainland or any city in the UK it seemed to be an option when the decision was debated and implemented. In my previous post you will see I agree with the designated days. The Union flag doesn't fly 24/7 in military barracks and no need to over the City Hall in Belfast. As far as banning the flying of flags on lamposts and the painting of kerb stones etc........if only,however that is another issue and in honesty much better than it used to be.

Well in that case I am misinformed and apologise. As you quite rightly say unless you live there it is difficult to understand and as I dont, I can only offer comment rather than anything else. As you say the issues run deep and in essence is more than just a flag. To the outside world though it looks this way and does your beautiful country no good in the eyes of the world.

You're not misinformed at all mate the problem is sooooo many different opinions and all are wrong and all are right. I just find living from day to day hard enough without this grief.

-- Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:07 pm --

A riot over a fucking flag.

I will never ever get it.

That's because IT'S NOT OVER A FLAG|

No - it's because a few sectarian idiots on both sides seem intent on perpetuating religious hatred to further their own warped agendas,whereas the rest of Britain has moved on from trying to re-enact 300 year old wars and learned to live with our differences in peace,as I'm sure the majority in Northern Ireland would do,given half a chance free of these throwbacks.
My late parents were both Irish,though born south of the border though,so I'm not altogether sure if this entitles me to an opinion or not.

Hi fets ;) was waiting for you. Mate if I could offer a solution I'd get on a bike,in my car and get down to wherever I needed to go and offer it with all my heart. We will move on and we have but it really is going to take a while and I'll be long dead. Everyone is entitled to an opinion fets everyone,right wrong indifferent :)

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

The decision to fly the flag on designated days was nothing to do with the mainland or any city in the UK it seemed to be an option when the decision was debated and implemented. In my previous post you will see I agree with the designated days. The Union flag doesn't fly 24/7 in military barracks and no need to over the City Hall in Belfast. As far as banning the flying of flags on lamposts and the painting of kerb stones etc........if only,however that is another issue and in honesty much better than it used to be.

Well in that case I am misinformed and apologise. As you quite rightly say unless you live there it is difficult to understand and as I dont, I can only offer comment rather than anything else. As you say the issues run deep and in essence is more than just a flag. To the outside world though it looks this way and does your beautiful country no good in the eyes of the world.

You're not misinformed at all mate the problem is sooooo many different opinions and all are wrong and all are right. I just find living from day to day hard enough without this grief.

-- Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:07 pm --

That's because IT'S NOT OVER A FLAG|

No - it's because a few sectarian idiots on both sides seem intent on perpetuating religious hatred to further their own warped agendas,whereas the rest of Britain has moved on from trying to re-enact 300 year old wars and learned to live with our differences in peace,as I'm sure the majority in Northern Ireland would do,given half a chance free of these throwbacks.
My late parents were both Irish,though born south of the border though,so I'm not altogether sure if this entitles me to an opinion or not.

Hi fets ;) was waiting for you. Mate if I could offer a solution I'd get on a bike,in my car and get down to wherever I needed to go and offer it with all my heart. We will move on and we have but it really is going to take a while and I'll be long dead. Everyone is entitled to an opinion fets everyone,right wrong indifferent :)

No worries Mick mate - it was always going to be a big ask to expect a community that has been divided along religious lines for generations to heal itself overnight,as I'm sure every single family has tales of persecution to tell at the hands of the Provos,or the Black and Tans,or whoever.
Sometimes it's easy to forget just how far Ulster has come when you look at the barricades and bombings of 30 years ago.
As I said,most folk I meet of either faith just want to get on with their lives and live in peace,not looking under the car for a mercury tilt switch every time they go shopping,or dreading their kids getting kneecapped for being kissing a catholic/protestant.
I just hope that both sets of extremists are given little support from the decent majority,and that flag flying is no longer seen as an excuse to score cheap political points.
The province has come too far to risk a return to the bad old days.

 

[Blue Tooth]

I think it might take another generation or two before lasting Peace comes to this part of the world. The roots of this conflict run deep and for me the saddest part of what I have seen the last few days were the youngsters out on the street giving it what for.
The majority of people in Northern Ireland are educating their kids in a forward thinking manner, but there still remain a bigoted minority on both sides of the argument who will not let the past alone however, and they are what keep the conflict alive.
Let's hope they are the dying embers of a world gone by.

 

[mick10]

Well in that case I am misinformed and apologise. As you quite rightly say unless you live there it is difficult to understand and as I dont, I can only offer comment rather than anything else. As you say the issues run deep and in essence is more than just a flag. To the outside world though it looks this way and does your beautiful country no good in the eyes of the world.

You're not misinformed at all mate the problem is sooooo many different opinions and all are wrong and all are right. I just find living from day to day hard enough without this grief.

-- Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:07 pm --

No - it's because a few sectarian idiots on both sides seem intent on perpetuating religious hatred to further their own warped agendas,whereas the rest of Britain has moved on from trying to re-enact 300 year old wars and learned to live with our differences in peace,as I'm sure the majority in Northern Ireland would do,given half a chance free of these throwbacks.
My late parents were both Irish,though born south of the border though,so I'm not altogether sure if this entitles me to an opinion or not.

Hi fets ;) was waiting for you. Mate if I could offer a solution I'd get on a bike,in my car and get down to wherever I needed to go and offer it with all my heart. We will move on and we have but it really is going to take a while and I'll be long dead. Everyone is entitled to an opinion fets everyone,right wrong indifferent :)

No worries Mick mate - it was always going to be a big ask to expect a community that has been divided along religious lines for generations to heal itself overnight,as I'm sure every single family has tales of persecution to tell at the hands of the Provos,or the Black and Tans,or whoever.
Sometimes it's easy to forget just how far Ulster has come when you look at the barricades and bombings of 30 years ago.
As I said,most folk I meet of either faith just want to get on with their lives and live in peace,not looking under the car for a mercury tilt switch every time they go shopping,or dreading their kids getting kneecapped for being kissing a catholic/protestant.
I just hope that both sets of extremists are given little support from the decent majority,and that flag flying is no longer seen as an excuse to score cheap political points.
The province has come too far to risk a return to the bad old days.

As always fets,put perfectly.

 

[Dj1979]

The decision to fly the flag on designated days was nothing to do with the mainland or any city in the UK it seemed to be an option when the decision was debated and implemented. In my previous post you will see I agree with the designated days. The Union flag doesn't fly 24/7 in military barracks and no need to over the City Hall in Belfast. As far as banning the flying of flags on lamposts and the painting of kerb stones etc........if only,however that is another issue and in honesty much better than it used to be.

Well in that case I am misinformed and apologise. As you quite rightly say unless you live there it is difficult to understand and as I dont, I can only offer comment rather than anything else. As you say the issues run deep and in essence is more than just a flag. To the outside world though it looks this way and does your beautiful country no good in the eyes of the world.

You're not misinformed at all mate the problem is sooooo many different opinions and all are wrong and all are right. I just find living from day to day hard enough without this grief.

-- Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:07 pm --

That's because IT'S NOT OVER A FLAG|

No - it's because a few sectarian idiots on both sides seem intent on perpetuating religious hatred to further their own warped agendas,whereas the rest of Britain has moved on from trying to re-enact 300 year old wars and learned to live with our differences in peace,as I'm sure the majority in Northern Ireland would do,given half a chance free of these throwbacks.
My late parents were both Irish,though born south of the border though,so I'm not altogether sure if this entitles me to an opinion or not.

Hi fets ;) was waiting for you. Mate if I could offer a solution I'd get on a bike,in my car and get down to wherever I needed to go and offer it with all my heart. We will move on and we have but it really is going to take a while and I'll be long dead. Everyone is entitled to an opinion fets everyone,right wrong indifferent :)

Mick10 there was an issue with the flag even you said yourself that at the vote there were sections that wanted the flag removed completely and that has been the case for a long time. What has been agrees upon it a decent resolution to the vast majority.

 

[a.woollam]

I'm sure that the Union Flag is flown all the time outside the town halls in London, Edinburgh and Cardiff, so although the political situation is different, I can't see a specific reason why it shouldn't in Belfast.

However, if the council voted for it then this process must be respected. Although I would like to know how well the public was engaged in the run up to the vote, surely they will have expected trouble?

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

Send Spandau Ballet in to do a gig, this song will sort it all out ;)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLR9yyI9CHg[/youtube]

 

[Anonymous]

Really interesting thread.

Mick, you say about the flag being removed etc. Why does anyone feel the need to fly it in the first place? If you look at many, many civic buildings on the mainland there are loads that don't bother flying it at all and we don't need to protest about it?

It's either insecurity or a need to assert authority in my very humble and simplistic opinion.

I don't think I feel I need it flown but it is the Union flag and Belfast is the capitol of N.I. and the City Hall was always the main building there prior to Stormont being formed again. There I think may lay the problem the position of power (or at least the building) has moved. You can't compare anywhere on the mainland to N.I. totally different politics and people. You don't need to protest about it there's no one trying to remove it.

Not according to the Mail/Express :))

The whole flag thing is depressing. Whenever I'm over there, I have to go through Dungiven which looks intimidating as fuck with all its Kevin Lynch/INLA stuff. The you come out of there and you're into Drumahoe which looks as intimidating as fuck with all its Union Jacks, Ulster, UVF flags etc.

Just ban flag flying in general!

(if only it were that simple eh?!)