Tuition fees

[law74]

[Besides, the idea that University should separate the best and the brightest is grotesque. University should be for anybody who wants to go.

No it shouldnt.
There is no need for an awful lot of people that are currently going to Uni to be there.
If we were to continue to send everyone that wanted to go to University then we would be without the tradesmen and women that this country is going to need to build again in the future. (no point in having the greatest scientists in the world if we have no one able to build their inventions).
That said, the ONLY way to decide who should go to universtiy should be by academic selection, NOT the ability to pay

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

[Besides, the idea that University should separate the best and the brightest is grotesque. University should be for anybody who wants to go.

No it shouldnt.
There is no need for an awful lot of people that are currently going to Uni to be there.
If we were to continue to send everyone that wanted to go to University then we would be without the tradesmen and women that this country is going to need to build again in the future. (no point in having the greatest scientists in the world if we have no one able to build their inventions).
That said, the ONLY way to decide who should go to universtiy should be by academic selection, NOT the ability to pay

What you propose falls at the first hurdle. The kids given a private education will invariably all make uni whilst the kids who go to state schools will invariably fail to get uni as they've had a 2nd rate education. I have a mate who went to a private school and he was learning shit in year 7 that my school didn't even bother doing with the year 11's.

So it would still all be about the money.

Education is a birthright.

 

[law74]

No it shouldnt.
There is no need for an awful lot of people that are currently going to Uni to be there.
If we were to continue to send everyone that wanted to go to University then we would be without the tradesmen and women that this country is going to need to build again in the future. (no point in having the greatest scientists in the world if we have no one able to build their inventions).
That said, the ONLY way to decide who should go to universtiy should be by academic selection, NOT the ability to pay

What you propose falls at the first hurdle. The kids given a private education will invariably all make uni whilst the kids who go to state schools will invariably fail to get uni as they've had a 2nd rate education. I have a mate who went to a private school and he was learning shit in year 7 that my school didn't even bother doing with the year 11's.

So it would still all be about the money.

Education is a birthright.

But the only way to change that is to improve the standard of state education. We cannot afford every person that wishes to go to uni to be allowed to go, therefore only allow those that will have the intelligence (different to having the qualifications), and the drive to succeed in their chosen area of expertise to be granted places, and not having thousands of people studying things like "Social Studies" "the Simpsons"or many of the other third level qualifications you can now do that will not (or at least should not) be of any use in your CV.

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

What you propose falls at the first hurdle. The kids given a private education will invariably all make uni whilst the kids who go to state schools will invariably fail to get uni as they've had a 2nd rate education. I have a mate who went to a private school and he was learning shit in year 7 that my school didn't even bother doing with the year 11's.

So it would still all be about the money.

Education is a birthright.

But the only way to change that is to improve the standard of state education. We cannot afford every person that wishes to go to uni to be allowed to go, therefore only allow those that will have the intelligence (different to having the qualifications), and the drive to succeed in their chosen area of expertise to be granted places, and not having thousands of people studying things like "Social Studies" "the Simpsons"or many of the other third level qualifications you can now do that will not (or at least should not) be of any use in your CV.

To improve the school system would cost money. We have a tory government. It won't happen.

Sadly, these days education is a luxury offered only to the middle classes.

 

[Scottyboi]

Some of the teachers at my school were a disgrace, I learned fuck all in English due to the teachers being bully victims, ended up with a C. The old school teachers were 10x better than these textbook manufactured ones.
If I had gone to a better school I would easily of learned more.

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

Some of the teachers at my school were a disgrace, I learned fuck all in English due to the teachers being bully victims, ended up with a C. The old school teachers were 10x better than these textbook manufactured ones.
If I had gone to a better school I would easily of learned more.

Exactly my point. You, like I, were deprived of a decent education due to your family not being able to afford to buy you a better one.

The mate I mentioned who went to private school is certainly no more intelligent than me, in fact I'd say I was twice as intelligent as he is, but his education was so good that he is knowledgeable about stuff which leaves me totally confused.

He had it drummed into him from being 11. Everything I did prior to Uni which meant I could study at a Uni was off my own back which is why I'm glad I went a little later than most do.

It's a bleak, dark, grim world in which we live. People are left to rot because they can't buy an education whilst people die in hospitals as they can't afford the treatment they need to live.

If it was up to me I'd drop the bomb now and start over again.

 

[Scottyboi]

Some of the teachers at my school were a disgrace, I learned fuck all in English due to the teachers being bully victims, ended up with a C. The old school teachers were 10x better than these textbook manufactured ones.
If I had gone to a better school I would easily of learned more.

Exactly my point. You, like I, were deprived of a decent education due to your family not being able to afford to buy you a better one.

The mate I mentioned who went to private school is certainly no more intelligent than me, in fact I'd say I was twice as intelligent as he is, but his education was so good that he is knowledgeable about stuff which leaves me totally confused.

He had it drummed into him from being 11. Everything I did prior to Uni which meant I could study at a Uni was off my own back which is why I'm glad I went a little later than most do.

It's a bleak, dark, grim world in which we live. People are left to rot because they can't buy an education whilst people die in hospitals as they can't afford the treatment they need to live.

If it was up to me I'd drop the bomb now and start over again.

I feel slightly depressed now :( haha

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

Exactly my point. You, like I, were deprived of a decent education due to your family not being able to afford to buy you a better one.

The mate I mentioned who went to private school is certainly no more intelligent than me, in fact I'd say I was twice as intelligent as he is, but his education was so good that he is knowledgeable about stuff which leaves me totally confused.

He had it drummed into him from being 11. Everything I did prior to Uni which meant I could study at a Uni was off my own back which is why I'm glad I went a little later than most do.

It's a bleak, dark, grim world in which we live. People are left to rot because they can't buy an education whilst people die in hospitals as they can't afford the treatment they need to live.

If it was up to me I'd drop the bomb now and start over again.

I feel slightly depressed now :( haha

'Life is full of stress and it wrecks my brain so I puff the buddha cess to relax the pain'
The Beatnuts.

Now that, dear friends, is a university education for you, I can quote The Beatnuts.

 

[Damocles]

[Besides, the idea that University should separate the best and the brightest is grotesque. University should be for anybody who wants to go.

No it shouldnt.
There is no need for an awful lot of people that are currently going to Uni to be there.
If we were to continue to send everyone that wanted to go to University then we would be without the tradesmen and women that this country is going to need to build again in the future. (no point in having the greatest scientists in the world if we have no one able to build their inventions).
That said, the ONLY way to decide who should go to universtiy should be by academic selection, NOT the ability to pay

Then we fundamentally disagree on the concept of education then. I do see your point, I just vehemently disagree. I believe that University should be available to all. This isn't to say that there wouldn't be pre-requisites for education, but anybody who wishes to attend should be able to.

 

[Mikeegrini]

Most posters appear to be of the same view, that education is a right not a luxury.

But at what the level does free or to be accurate totally state funded (tax payer) education end and who should pay for what, seems to be main point of difference?

I think that anyone going into higher education (university) should contribute as is the case now. They should pay for the qualification they have received when they are earning enough to do so. I struggle to agree with those who say university should be free simply because, most who take the opportunity to study at university and gain a degree will easily be recompensed in later life by the fact that their potential to earn increases vastly to the majority.In 2008/09, 2.4 million students enrolled in higher education.

To those who argue that a well educated country is a better country, I agree but shouldn't we,as a nation, ensure that all our young people are educated?

To argue that the system (as proposed recently) will hinder those from poorer backgrounds has some credence but in the main this appears to me to be nothing more than those in a position to pay, the middle classes, hiding behind this excuse and are simply not being willing to do so. Those from poorer backgrounds do not make it this far.

From The Equality and Human Rights Commission Triennial Review Executive Study.

Free School Meals (FSM) are available in England and Wales to children who come from households with relatively low income. Students eligible for FSM are less than half as likely to achieve 5 good GCSEs including English and
Maths.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/uploaded_files/triennial_review/tr_execsumm.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/uplo ... ecsumm.pdf</a>

Money should be spent on education but it should be in the schools where all young people from all backgrounds, though the poorest the most,are being failed daily.

For students from lower socio-economic groups, the gap widens during the school years. The gap in students’ GCSE results according to their
family backgrounds remains wider than most other educational inequalities, although tentative evidence indicates that it has started to narrow since 2006.

A point to consider.

Within the UK's prison population 80% of prisoners have poor writing skills, 50% have reading difficulties and 65% have trouble with numeracy.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.dyslexia-parent.com/mag50.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dyslexia-parent.com/mag50.html</a>