Txiki and the 4-3-3.......

[mancity1]

Apologies in advance if this has been covered in other threads as I've not been on today and was forever playing catch-up over the weekend on the MP thread.

Anyway, I was playing football this evening when the thought crossed my mind that am I imagining stuff when I say that wasn't there a statement that we were going to play 4-3-3 right through all levels at the club, as this was "the future"?

Just found it strange that we all seem to have missed this whilst discussing the doubts about our new manager and the performances of late seeing as we've played a rigid 4-4-2 in all 4 games.

Txiki didn't say it. One of the coaches claimed to the press a year or so ago that a message had been passed on to the junior coaches that this was going to be the formation that players were developed on. It was never confirmed, in fact I've a feeling it might even have been denied.

Either way, we've been 4222 all season, and about 60% of pre-season (although I haven't seen Saturday's game). And that's the formation Pellegrini is best known for I believe. At the moment it isn't working, mainly, Because we can't get the holding players working properly and there's no proper link play or fluidity. We have seen that great big gap between the holders and the attackers that we suffered from 2 years ago.He might carry on with it now vinny is back in the hope that his distribution and 'stepping out' will stop yaya coming deep and slowing us down.

It was never my favourite formation but we've used it for most of the last two years with Barry providing the momentum and link play.

But it's giving him the first challenge of his city career and I am keen to see how he reacts.

Kidd will insist he change, he has our best interests at heart and I hope he listens.

We played 4-2-2-2 again and it was woeful.

 

[Keith Moon]

Well 1, 2, 3, 4 - how hard can it be..

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Apologies in advance if this has been covered in other threads as I've not been on today and was forever playing catch-up over the weekend on the MP thread.

Anyway, I was playing football this evening when the thought crossed my mind that am I imagining stuff when I say that wasn't there a statement that we were going to play 4-3-3 right through all levels at the club, as this was "the future"?

Just found it strange that we all seem to have missed this whilst discussing the doubts about our new manager and the performances of late seeing as we've played a rigid 4-4-2 in all 4 games.

Txiki didn't say it. One of the coaches claimed to the press a year or so ago that a message had been passed on to the junior coaches that this was going to be the formation that players were developed on. It was never confirmed, in fact I've a feeling it might even have been denied.

Either way, we've been 4222 all season, and about 60% of pre-season (although I haven't seen Saturday's game). And that's the formation Pellegrini is best known for I believe. At the moment it isn't working, mainly, Because we can't get the holding players working properly and there's no proper link play or fluidity. We have seen that great big gap between the holders and the attackers that we suffered from 2 years ago.He might carry on with it now vinny is back in the hope that his distribution and 'stepping out' will stop yaya coming deep and slowing us down.

It was never my favourite formation but we've used it for most of the last two years with Barry providing the momentum and link play.

But it's giving him the first challenge of his city career and I am keen to see how he reacts.

Kidd will insist he change, he has our best interests at heart and I hope he listens.

We played 4-2-2-2 again and it was woeful.

Kidd hasn't got anything like the authority to dictate formation. Pellegrini will do what he needs to do I assume as the season progresses. One thing's for sure. He must see people running past yaya like he isnt there time and time again. He has to solve this problem quickly.

 

[mancity1]

Txiki didn't say it. One of the coaches claimed to the press a year or so ago that a message had been passed on to the junior coaches that this was going to be the formation that players were developed on. It was never confirmed, in fact I've a feeling it might even have been denied.

Either way, we've been 4222 all season, and about 60% of pre-season (although I haven't seen Saturday's game). And that's the formation Pellegrini is best known for I believe. At the moment it isn't working, mainly, Because we can't get the holding players working properly and there's no proper link play or fluidity. We have seen that great big gap between the holders and the attackers that we suffered from 2 years ago.He might carry on with it now vinny is back in the hope that his distribution and 'stepping out' will stop yaya coming deep and slowing us down.

It was never my favourite formation but we've used it for most of the last two years with Barry providing the momentum and link play.

But it's giving him the first challenge of his city career and I am keen to see how he reacts.

Kidd will insist he change, he has our best interests at heart and I hope he listens.

We played 4-2-2-2 again and it was woeful.

Kidd hasn't got anything like the authority to dictate formation. Pellegrini will do what he needs to do I assume as the season progresses. One thing's for sure. He must see people running past yaya like he isnt there time and time again. He has to solve this problem quickly.

Its not a matter of authority DD its changing for the better.

The best assistants be they coaches or assistants are their to guide the manager when required and the best managers trust them.

Failing that they may as well chew on lollies and stand up when a player is coming on to ease the pain from their ass.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Kidd will insist he change, he has our best interests at heart and I hope he listens.

We played 4-2-2-2 again and it was woeful.

Kidd hasn't got anything like the authority to dictate formation. Pellegrini will do what he needs to do I assume as the season progresses. One thing's for sure. He must see people running past yaya like he isnt there time and time again. He has to solve this problem quickly.

Its not a matter of authority DD its changing for the better.

The best assistants be they coaches or assistants are their to guide the manager when required and the best managers trust them.

Failing that they may as well chew on lollies and stand up when a player is coming on to ease the pain from their ass.

No mate, the operative word here is 'assistant'. And as far as I'm aware Kidd isn't even that. Whilst Pellegrini will talk to all his staff, he will make the decisions. That's his job.

Kidd was there to put out the cones in training for Mancini and I doubt he will do much more than that for Pellegrini. He's a nice fella but he's a yes man, that's why he's on his third regime at city. If you think he will be pulling the manager to one side to tell him to change his approach then you're wrong.

 

[RobertBlue]

I dont really think what formation we play actually matters 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 once we have possession most teams in the prem play with 10 men behind the ball and defend for their lives... no formation stops this or counters it, intelligent players, intelligent passing and working hard to create space for others counters this. It was the biggest problem last year and will probably be this seasons...

The formation really does matter.

If you play a team defending deep you should use a formation with width. If you play a team who want to play you toe to toe you try to dominate the midfield, etc etc.

Of course you have to have the right players in the right roles to make that formation work, and that's where we are struggling at he moment.

I agree, but 4-2-2-2 should be the best to provide width, we re playing with 2 striker's (combining aerial threat and speed) for me fernandinho will start to get use to the prem physicality but the quality of our left backs to defend and attack at speed and zabs play going forward is where we ll suffer.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I dont really think what formation we play actually matters 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 once we have possession most teams in the prem play with 10 men behind the ball and defend for their lives... no formation stops this or counters it, intelligent players, intelligent passing and working hard to create space for others counters this. It was the biggest problem last year and will probably be this seasons...

The formation really does matter.

If you play a team defending deep you should use a formation with width. If you play a team who want to play you toe to toe you try to dominate the midfield, etc etc.

Of course you have to have the right players in the right roles to make that formation work, and that's where we are struggling at he moment.

I agree, but 4-2-2-2 should be the best to provide width, we re playing with 2 striker's (combining aerial threat and speed) for me fernandinho will start to get use to the prem physicality but the quality of our left backs to defend and attack at speed and zabs play going forward is where we ll suffer.

That's why I'm sitting back expecting big improvements. Pellegrini's 4222 involves fullbacks overlapping every time the wider midfielders come inside. Neither zab nor kolorov can do this at all. It also relies on high tempo and direct passing and when your centre halves keep playing 3 yard passes to your holding midfielders, who are coming too deep and taking too long to release, or keep going sideways, the whole system loses its effectiveness.

 

[Rascal]

The formation really does matter.

Only when you dont have the ball.

Surely even you realises that

 

[The-Dogs-Pollocks]

The formation really does matter.

If you play a team defending deep you should use a formation with width. If you play a team who want to play you toe to toe you try to dominate the midfield, etc etc.

Of course you have to have the right players in the right roles to make that formation work, and that's where we are struggling at he moment.

I agree, but 4-2-2-2 should be the best to provide width, we re playing with 2 striker's (combining aerial threat and speed) for me fernandinho will start to get use to the prem physicality but the quality of our left backs to defend and attack at speed and zabs play going forward is where we ll suffer.

That's why I'm sitting back expecting big improvements. Pellegrini's 4222 involves fullbacks overlapping every time the wider midfielders come inside. Neither zab nor kolorov can do this at all. It also relies on high tempo and direct passing and when your centre halves keep playing 3 yard passes to your holding midfielders, who are coming too deep and taking too long to release, or keep going sideways, the whole system loses its effectiveness.

So what your basically saying is that Pellers has not bought the correct players to play his favoured formation? Micah is more or less permanently injured and he had the chance to sell kola rob but chose to keep him on

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I agree, but 4-2-2-2 should be the best to provide width, we re playing with 2 striker's (combining aerial threat and speed) for me fernandinho will start to get use to the prem physicality but the quality of our left backs to defend and attack at speed and zabs play going forward is where we ll suffer.

That's why I'm sitting back expecting big improvements. Pellegrini's 4222 involves fullbacks overlapping every time the wider midfielders come inside. Neither zab nor kolorov can do this at all. It also relies on high tempo and direct passing and when your centre halves keep playing 3 yard passes to your holding midfielders, who are coming too deep and taking too long to release, or keep going sideways, the whole system loses its effectiveness.

So what your basically saying is that Pellers has not bought the correct players to play his favoured formation? Micah is more or less permanently injured and he had the chance to sell kola rob but chose to keep him on

Of course I'm not saying that. We have had injuries to five defenders and been badly affected by that.