Txiki Begiristain...

[reedy]

Mancini needs to be careful. if he pisses of Txiki , he upsets his CEO at the same time .. not a good move.

 

[sam-caddick]

That's how much Benitez spent and didn't win the league

I just think we should be honest with ourselves, because we won the title last year battling it out with one of the worst United teams have had under Ferguson that over-achieved beyond means... a Chelsea side that under the first 6 months under Villas Boas were in constant battle with each other and the realtionship clearly never got on, plus Chelsea were an ageing side and seemed to only really care about the Champions League, even if they did fluke it. Plus, Arsenal... they had one of the worst sides under Wenger and clearly relied on RVP to scrape them through.

Benitez's Liverpool was battling out with the best United squad since the treble season, Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney up front, Vidic, Ferdinand and Van Der Sar was the best defensive in world football - Chelsea had a team where all the players were in their prime and Arsenal has by far a better side than they did last season.

We nearly lost the league last year, and if we had done it would of gone down as the biggest dissapointments in Premier League history, we never had a better season to win it than last year.

Disagee with that bit! Unless you are just talking about City fans.

It would of been up there with Newcastle years ago. We had by far the best team in the league last season, United to what you would call their usual modern standard had a poor team than over achieved and if they had won it, it would of gone down as Fergusons greatest achievement given the squad he had, plus the injuries they had to that squad.

We should have had the title won weeks if not months befire the season ended.

 

[Cobwebcat]

I just think we should be honest with ourselves, because we won the title last year battling it out with one of the worst United teams have had under Ferguson that over-achieved beyond means... a Chelsea side that under the first 6 months under Villas Boas were in constant battle with each other and the realtionship clearly never got on, plus Chelsea were an ageing side and seemed to only really care about the Champions League, even if they did fluke it. Plus, Arsenal... they had one of the worst sides under Wenger and clearly relied on RVP to scrape them through.

Benitez's Liverpool was battling out with the best United squad since the treble season, Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney up front, Vidic, Ferdinand and Van Der Sar was the best defensive in world football - Chelsea had a team where all the players were in their prime and Arsenal has by far a better side than they did last season.

We nearly lost the league last year, and if we had done it would of gone down as the biggest dissapointments in Premier League history, we never had a better season to win it than last year.

Disagee with that bit! Unless you are just talking about City fans.

It would of been up there with Newcastle years ago. We had by far the best team in the league last season, United to what you would call their usual modern standard had a poor team than over achieved and if they had won it, it would of gone down as Fergusons greatest achievement given the squad he had, plus the injuries they had to that squad.

We should have had the title won weeks if not months befire the season ended.

It's not that easy to win The Premiership with months to spare. Money is a huge factor but Mancini did very well. Rather than comparing finishing position I think points total would be a better measure.

United's best team was the one you mention but this current one is very good. Whether that's Bacon or the team is the same point again.

http://clubelo.com/ManUnited/All-time.html

 

[sam-caddick]

Mancini needs to be careful. if he pisses of Txiki , he upsets his CEO at the same time .. not a good move.

I adore Mancini, but I really cannot see him lasting that long now we have a director of football brought in by his old Barcelona colleague, who share a vision in how THEY want the club to go.

Mancini complained about transfers in the Summer, but a director of footballs role is to put his vision in place by signing and selling the players who he believes will form his vision, not the managers.

The manager under a DOF is to manage the team, put the players in the best formation possible, man manage them ( which Mancini is no good at in modern football standards), work on any flaws etc.. Mancini wanted more power in the Summer, but if anything, that power has diminished to an even lesser extent now than when Marwood was partly in charge

 

[taconinja]

But I didn't say "shit loads." I said "a lot."

I think you're playing semantic acrobatics mate. The manager is an integral part of any club's success, I don't doubt that for one second. But ultimately the single most important factor in a clubs relative success it it's expenditure/wage bill, because it directly correlates with the quality of players they have. It's why the top 4 wage bills in the league are nearly always the top 4 teams in the league. It's why a team managed by Avram Grant can make its way to the Champions League final, or why Real Madrid can sack coaches for fun but still continue to be there or thereabout in La Liga and in Europe.

No, I was specifically avoiding hyperbole because wages and transfers are very important. Context, Billy. Context is important, and you stripping away the rest of my post removes the context wherein I make the point that wages are important but only when paired with a high-level manager.

Also Top 4 is not a cup or a title no matter how much Wenger argues it is. ;)

 

[sam-caddick]

Tito Vilanova on our appointment of Txiki Begiristain.

"I congratulate Manchester City with the signing of Txiki, we must recognize the work he did here,” he told reporters.

“Barcelona's achievements are his too, the titles we've won are, in part, thanks to his work with the team and with Pep Guardiola."

 

[LoveCity]

Mancini's vision may not be completely different than their own. He has tried to get us playing something like Barcelona and at times (vs. Spurs for example) it has had amazing results. But lately we seem to have lost that fluidity and that speed of passing, but that is probably not by choice. A few speedy and/or creative additions to the squad that Txiki can help identify and all might be good? I also don't think Mancini is against the idea of promoting from within, the Barca way, we just haven't had the players Barcelona have had. But Guidetti's new contract suggests he may be in Mancini's plans? And Guidetti is probably the one academy player nearly ready for some regular first team football at City if we can clear one forward spot for him.

 

[taconinja]

Mancini's vision may not be completely different than their own. He has tried to get us playing something like Barcelona and at times (vs. Spurs for example) it has had amazing results. But lately we seem to have lost that fluidity and that speed of passing, but that is probably not by choice. A few speedy and/or creative additions to the squad that Txiki can help identify and all might be good? I also don't think Mancini is against the idea of promoting from within, the Barca way, we just haven't had the players Barcelona have had. But Guidetti's new contract suggests he may be in Mancini's plans? And Guidetti is probably the one academy player nearly ready for some regular first team football at City if we can clear one forward spot for him.

Mancini has always come across as a firm believer in Total Football. It's not hard to figure out the connection between the Total Football concept and Barcelona either.

 

[bapi]

Please, can somebody post these two articles? Thank you very much.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/premierleague/article3582378.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/foo ... 582378.ece</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/premierleague/article3582468.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/foo ... 582468.ece</a>

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

of course there was, but over the course of the campaign we earnt the title, Liverpool were lucky in almost every aspect all the way through, big difference.

The arrogance of you and Dave recently is tiresome, if you want to debate you should show a bit of respect about it.

Wages do have to be factored in but at the end of the day Fergie isn't the one who decided the combination of Gareth Barry and Robbie Keane were better than Xabi Alonso, or that Fernando Morientes and Robbie Fowler were good signings or Andrea Dossena.

Besides, when you spend £200m + wages the argument of another team spending more is a bit mute 2bh, you should be doing better than 4 years without any sort of trophy, and when your transfer logic is to piss off one of your best players and buy a lot of rubbish then really it's on your head be it.

I would also question the figure being twice as much for Chelsea & United.

In your desperate need to slag off my argument you've missed the point spectacularly. Taconinja said

Lots of clubs spend a lot of money and never get a sniff of a title or a cup.

I said give me an example. You gave me an example of a team who won the European Cup, got to another final, won the FA Cup, and finished second to United on 87 points which would have won the league in any other premiership season. Hence I said your argument was stupid.

Now if that makes me arrogant then I can only apologise. The argument is stupid.

I don't think that's a fair comment 2bh, he finished 2nd once in 6 seasons, despite spending over £200m. Forget wages that is enough money to challenge for title success every season, up there with Chelsea/United, fact is he managed it once. Phantom goals and Steven Gerrard wonder performances aside, Benitez didn't deliver Liverpool the success that his transfer spending should have delivered, and although there were positive aspects of his reign he underachieved.

I think taconinja made a very wild point, when the point should have been managers who underachieved, not necessarily getting nowhere near, as that kind of money will eventually produce results, and with it come reasonable wages and high profile manager and coaching staff.

That aside, Kenny Dalglish spent over £100m in little over 6 months and managed a Carling Cup and to do worse in the league, so it shows that money and performance don't go hand in hand all the time, especially in the short term. It's taken Anzhi time to get to 2nd in the Russian League, PSG didn't manage to win the league last season, Bayern have lost out to Dortmund 2 seasons running. In the long term money correlates to success, but Liverpool have spent well over £300m in transfer fees alone since Benitez came in and have finished 2nd once, that is terrible when you made the comment about the title, not including cups, so that Champions League & FA Cup robbery is excluded on your own terms.