Txiki Begiristain

[coolcity]

Interesting looking back at the start of this thread when nobody wanted him here.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Bill being Bill. Progress doesn't suit everybody.

Arguably the daftest poster in the forum's history. So silly most think he's some kind of clever wind up merchant.

 

[Phil1]

He's clearly done a very good/great job with the current squad but the striker and left back situations are bizarre.

And a lot of the signings in Pellegrinis first 2 seasons were dreadful.

There's an impression we are lax with tying deals up sometimes which lets people dive in, Jorginho, Alves, Sanchez etc.

And we definitely end up relying on release clauses a lot.

However that's probably Berrada more than Txiki thing.

We clearly have wanted to sign a striker but we know who we want and are willing to wait for the right man rather than buy for buying sake.
We've not really had a great dedicated LB for years. There's been players who have done a job but hardly going to go down in history so our current situation regarding that position isn't anywhere near as bad as made out. Us having the best defensive record most seasons since Pep arrived seems to back up the fact its not as bizarre as some like to make out.
The rest of your post is subjective at best.

 

[Keeper!]

Obviously, but if we don't get Haaland then Kane would be high up amongst alternatives we would consider. With good reason.

Obviously, high quality strikers are few and far between, hence why it will have taken the best part of 3 years to replace Kun.

 

[Del_Bosque]

We clearly have wanted to sign a striker but we know who we want and are willing to wait for the right man rather than buy for buying sake.
We've not really had a great dedicated LB for years. There's been players who have done a job but hardly going to go down in history so our current situation regarding that position isn't anywhere near as bad as made out. Us having the best defensive record most seasons since Pep arrived seems to back up the fact its not as bizarre as some like to make out.
The rest of your post is subjective at best.

You think it's normal the richest club in the world don't have a specialist left back or striker?

Once it was decided Jesus wasn't going to play upfront he should have been shipped out, especially with Aguero having left.

We've signed 2 left backs in 11 years, one has arguably been the worst transfer of all time, and the other left after 6 months.

We get by because we have the best coach in the world, but even a drop to someone like Tuchel/Poch would have exposed this massively.

 

[Phil1]

You think it's normal the richest club in the world don't have a specialist left back or striker?

Once it was decided Jesus wasn't going to play upfront he should have been shipped out, especially with Aguero having left.

We've signed 2 left backs in 11 years, one has arguably been the worst transfer of all time, and the other left after 6 months.

We get by because we have the best coach in the world, but even a drop to someone like Tuchel/Poch would have exposed this massively.

We aren't normal, which is one of the reasons we are successful. Oh, and we do have Pep. Another manager may have demanded a LB and striker and we could be sitting in 4th now. Nobody knows. The only thing we can be sure of is what's actually happened and you know, it's not been half bad.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

You think it's normal the richest club in the world don't have a specialist left back or striker?

Once it was decided Jesus wasn't going to play upfront he should have been shipped out, especially with Aguero having left.

We've signed 2 left backs in 11 years, one has arguably been the worst transfer of all time, and the other left after 6 months.

We get by because we have the best coach in the world, but even a drop to someone like Tuchel/Poch would have exposed this massively.

We play the long game with transfers. We have to because we only sign world class players and there are hardly any available. That's exactly why we are successful: we have a lean, hungry, focussed squad and we don't sign sub standard players for the sake of it who will upset the apple cart and need shipping out in a year or two. That's what Man United do and look at them.

 

[Del_Bosque]

We play the long game with transfers. We have to because we only sign world class players and there are hardly any available. That's exactly why we are successful: we have a lean, hungry, focussed squad and we don't sign sub standard players for the sake of it who will upset the apple cart and need shipping out in a year or two. That's what Man United do and look at them.

I think world class is a push, generally it's more highly rated early 20's players ready to make the step up? Dias, Cancelo, Bernardo, Rodri, Laporte etc?

Kane deal fell apart and they didn't flap and sign someone who they didn't want as our main striker which is commendable.

However the Kane fallout highlighted the issues around the back up striker.

There's plenty of forwards who've moved who are better than Jesus through the middle and wouldn't demand to play every week so could have played "back up striker" role when Kane/Haaland came in.

The club have basically admitted we are well short up front as we've tied up Alvarez and are still moving for Haaland in the same window.

Re: left back, M*ndy was still part of the squad plans he rotated in quite a lot end of last season and started vs Spurs, he should have been sacked off years ago complete liability on the pitch.

 

[plattlanebenches]

We play the long game with transfers. We have to because we only sign world class players and there are hardly any available. That's exactly why we are successful: we have a lean, hungry, focussed squad and we don't sign sub standard players for the sake of it who will upset the apple cart and need shipping out in a year or two. That's what Man United do and look at them.

Dead right. We also sign players who will buy into the team ethos and realise they won’t play every game so no ego issues.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I think world class is a push, generally it's more highly rated early 20's players ready to make the step up? Dias, Cancelo, Bernardo, Rodri, Laporte etc?

Kane deal fell apart and they didn't flap and sign someone who they didn't want as our main striker which is commendable.

However the Kane fallout highlighted the issues around the back up striker.

There's plenty of forwards who've moved who are better than Jesus through the middle and wouldn't demand to play every week so could have played "back up striker" role when Kane/Haaland came in.

The club have basically admitted we are well short up front as we've tied up Alvarez and are still moving for Haaland in the same window.

Re: left back, M*ndy was still part of the squad plans he rotated in quite a lot end of last season and started vs Spurs, he should have been sacked off years ago complete liability on the pitch.

We are the best team in the world so by definition, we are signing world class players or players with the potential to be world class when developed. Can you name the strikers who have moved on in the last year who we should have signed? And even better we are going to sign one who is in the summer to compliment the other we signed in january. We played the long game again, like we did when we eventually got Laporte and Dias.

With regards to Mendy, you can’t just “sack off”’an injured player who is under a massive contract. You have to get him fit and playing and then try to sell him on to recoup some of your losses which is what we were doing.

 

[Robanompivenov]

You can't judge Txiki on the transfers he "missed out on" because you don't know why we "missed out" or whether we even did.

He can only be judged on the transfers in and out along with the squad retention and in my mind he's only got one wrong in the Pep era - Mendy. Every single other high profile signing has been a massive success and we have a brilliant, settled, balanced, lean, motivated and happy squad.

He's one of the unsung heroes of this glory era and in many ways is Pep's right hand man. And he has obviously played a big part in Pep's recruitment and retention too, which elevates him even further. I suspect now he would probably be considered to be the number one Director of Football in the world and if he ever left could literally get any job in the world.

Nail on't head

 

[Del_Bosque]

We are the best team in the world so by definition, we are signing world class players or players with the potential to be world class when developed. Can you name the strikers who have moved on in the last year who we should have signed? And even better we are going to sign one who is in the summer to compliment the other we signed in january. We played the long game again, like we did when we eventually got Laporte and Dias.

With regards to Mendy, you can’t just “sack off”’an injured player who is under a massive contract. You have to get him fit and playing and then try to sell him on to recoup some of your losses which is what we were doing.

Well since summer 2021 the following have all moved and are better options at CF than Jesus: Greizmann, Andre Silva, Vlahovic, Jota, Daka, Malen. That's just high profile players, our scouting network would be looking at promising players for that back up striker role.

But Jesus has been proven not up to it since well before that, i'd say summer 2019, the issue was ignored and has come to a head because Kane didn't join and Aguero left.

We've had 2 seasons of the best manager in the world playing with 1 arm tied behind his back, and now we've got the best young winger in the world playing out of position to cover it too.

We have a world wide scouting network and a unique system of clubs that let us identify and develop talent like nobody else, the idea that we couldn't find 1 up and coming player or promising youngster to replace Jesus (who the manager doesn't believe can play CF) in 3 years is mindboggling.

Good long term planning would have been to replace Jesus prior to summer 2021, that way we wouldn't have been left without a striker when Kane fell through.

Re left back, of course we could have loaned Mendy out and got someone in, he's knees have been permanently bust since late 2018.

Txiki's done a good/great job but left back and CF are gaping holes in the recruitment and have been for years.

 

[blueparrot]

Well since summer 2021 the following have all moved and are better options at CF than Jesus: Greizmann, Andre Silva, Vlahovic, Jota, Daka, Malen. That's just high profile players, our scouting network would be looking at promising players for that back up striker role.

But Jesus has been proven not up to it since well before that, i'd say summer 2019, the issue was ignored and has come to a head because Kane didn't join and Aguero left.

We've had 2 seasons of the best manager in the world playing with 1 arm tied behind his back, and now we've got the best young winger in the world playing out of position to cover it too.

We have a world wide scouting network and a unique system of clubs that let us identify and develop talent like nobody else, the idea that we couldn't find 1 up and coming player or promising youngster to replace Jesus (who the manager doesn't believe can play CF) in 3 years is mindboggling.

Good long term planning would have been to replace Jesus prior to summer 2021, that way we wouldn't have been left without a striker when Kane fell through.

Re left back, of course we could have loaned Mendy out and got someone in, he's knees have been permanently bust since late 2018.

Txiki's done a good/great job but left back and CF are gaping holes in the recruitment and have been for years.

Maybe we aren't that bothered about a back up striker, in fact we probably aren't. The last few years we have managed perfectly well with Jesus or a false 9 as an alternative to Aguero.
I expect when / if we buy Haaland we will use Alvarez in much the same way as Jesus either centrally or wide.Doubt we have ever been in the market for a back up centre forward, which is why the list of those you named that have moved didn't interest us.
Left backs we can obviously take them or leave them.

 

[pavelsrnicek]

Well since summer 2021 the following have all moved and are better options at CF than Jesus: Greizmann, Andre Silva, Vlahovic, Jota, Daka, Malen. That's just high profile players, our scouting network would be looking at promising players for that back up striker role.

But Jesus has been proven not up to it since well before that, i'd say summer 2019, the issue was ignored and has come to a head because Kane didn't join and Aguero left.

We've had 2 seasons of the best manager in the world playing with 1 arm tied behind his back, and now we've got the best young winger in the world playing out of position to cover it too.

We have a world wide scouting network and a unique system of clubs that let us identify and develop talent like nobody else, the idea that we couldn't find 1 up and coming player or promising youngster to replace Jesus (who the manager doesn't believe can play CF) in 3 years is mindboggling.

Good long term planning would have been to replace Jesus prior to summer 2021, that way we wouldn't have been left without a striker when Kane fell through.

Re left back, of course we could have loaned Mendy out and got someone in, he's knees have been permanently bust since late 2018.

Txiki's done a good/great job but left back and CF are gaping holes in the recruitment and have been for years.

I think you’re being very broad in definition as to better strikers than Jesus. Andre Silva, Daka and Malen may all prove better forwards than Jesus but have not yet. Griezman would never fit for us in terms of personality and wages. Jota signed as a wide forward and plays wide for Liverpool. Vlahovic is a target man alright but seems to have been tapped up by Juve for an age.

As for Mendy, who in their right mind would have taken a chronically injured player with high wages on loan?

 

[freshie]

I'd love to see that Venn diagram.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

J

Well since summer 2021 the following have all moved and are better options at CF than Jesus: Greizmann, Andre Silva, Vlahovic, Jota, Daka, Malen. That's just high profile players, our scouting network would be looking at promising players for that back up striker role.

But Jesus has been proven not up to it since well before that, i'd say summer 2019, the issue was ignored and has come to a head because Kane didn't join and Aguero left.

We've had 2 seasons of the best manager in the world playing with 1 arm tied behind his back, and now we've got the best young winger in the world playing out of position to cover it too.

We have a world wide scouting network and a unique system of clubs that let us identify and develop talent like nobody else, the idea that we couldn't find 1 up and coming player or promising youngster to replace Jesus (who the manager doesn't believe can play CF) in 3 years is mindboggling.

Good long term planning would have been to replace Jesus prior to summer 2021, that way we wouldn't have been left without a striker when Kane fell through.

Re left back, of course we could have loaned Mendy out and got someone in, he's knees have been permanently bust since late 2018.

Txiki's done a good/great job but left back and CF are gaping holes in the recruitment and have been for years.

Good long term planning will be ending up with Haaland, Alvarez and Delap for the next five years, not a collection of overpaid, one trick pony misfit strikers. Our club is the very model of long term planning. Have you not noticed that when we sign an attacking player they can nearly always play in 3-4 positions? There is a reason for this. Jesus is one of those who has now shown a preference for wide right and is an excellent option there, enabling us not need to replace Torres.

Also you have totally overlooked the actual role of the left back at MCFC. There’s a good reason why we have won a shit load of trophies with Delph, Zinchenko and Cancelo playing there. Think it through.

We could do with a left back and we need a striker. Everyone knows this. But we play the long game and bring in the best when they are available and get 5-10 years out of them. We don’t throw money at players who aren’t committed to us. That’s the MCFC way and is an integral part of our success. You haven’t been paying attention.

 

[Maly]

Well since summer 2021 the following have all moved and are better options at CF than Jesus: Greizmann, Andre Silva, Vlahovic, Jota, Daka, Malen. That's just high profile players, our scouting network would be looking at promising players for that back up striker role.

But Jesus has been proven not up to it since well before that, i'd say summer 2019, the issue was ignored and has come to a head because Kane didn't join and Aguero left.

We've had 2 seasons of the best manager in the world playing with 1 arm tied behind his back, and now we've got the best young winger in the world playing out of position to cover it too.

We have a world wide scouting network and a unique system of clubs that let us identify and develop talent like nobody else, the idea that we couldn't find 1 up and coming player or promising youngster to replace Jesus (who the manager doesn't believe can play CF) in 3 years is mindboggling.

Good long term planning would have been to replace Jesus prior to summer 2021, that way we wouldn't have been left without a striker when Kane fell through.

Re left back, of course we could have loaned Mendy out and got someone in, he's knees have been permanently bust since late 2018.

Txiki's done a good/great job but left back and CF are gaping holes in the recruitment and have been for years.

You raise some interesting points there pal & whilst I don’t agree with everything you’ve posted, I do understand your thinking

My take on it is slightly different as I really don’t think any of the strikers you mention would have definitely improved our chances of winning things, other than maybe Jota, but that’s open to debate as it’s opinion based, not factual

With regard to LB, sorry bud, I think that’s absolutely incorrect. Which LB’s out there would you take over Zinchenko & Cancelo?

I can’t think of many myself, so I don’t see how we have a hole at LB, just because we’ve not bought a ‘traditional’ LB in 400 years

Definitely agree that he’s doing a great job tho bud

 

[Deleted member 77198]

There's a long and winding road back to the start of the anti-Begiristain movement on Bluemoon. You are right it does attract some odd, very fundaMENTALIST types.

I have been critical of him in the past.

We were all disappointed in the Summer 2014 recruitment, seemingly making the same mistakes Marwood and Mancini made in Summer 2012.

And again, in the build-up to Pep coming, Txiki and Pellegrini allowed the squad to drift and decline a bit: fitness declined, the age of the squad went too high, having four full backs all over 30 for probably two years too long… we didn’t pave the way for Pep coming very well.

But I’m not bloody critical of him now (nor Pep). Between them (and the others who probably all have input), they’ve overseen our squad maintaining a level of being among the best few teams in the Prem and among the best few teams in Europe for five seasons running.

Do we have gaps in the squad at the moment? Yes
But will they address them long term? Yes!

And almost all of the time clubs have gaps in their squad, at any time. And whenever they don’t, that doesn’t last long.

 

[Bournemouth Blue]

Pep does his best, but I think there is a problem with recruitment. Surely, with our record, we should have foreseen Aguero’s demise and recruited a World-class striker before he left, Harry Kane might have been an option but if his boss said no we should have secured someone in case. It might cost us this season, it is possible we end up without a trophy, and Pep might use it as an excuse to walk. It is obvious that if we don’t win Premier League and Champions League it is because we don’t have natural goal poachers.

 

[samarasra]

Pep does his best, but I think there is a problem with recruitment. Surely, with our record, we should have foreseen Aguero’s demise and recruited a World-class striker before he left, Harry Kane might have been an option but if his boss said no we should have secured someone in case. It might cost us this season, it is possible we end up without a trophy, and Pep might use it as an excuse to walk. It is obvious that if we don’t win Premier League and Champions League it is because we don’t have natural goal poachers.

Name 3 "world-class" strikers, with records at least as good as prime Aguero, who were both available for transfer and wanted to join City, in the past 2 years.