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UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST
- Thread starter razman
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MillionMilesAway
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Do we get to have our day in court ? Present our defence and our evidence to the panel or is it all decided behind closed doors ?
Yes, we get to present our side, hence Pannick being involved.
But it will be behind closed doors - CAS is an arbitration service, so it has to be confidential.
Dribble
Well-Known Member
Perhaps you didn't get my analogy, but that's exactly what I meant. UEFA can set all the rules they like, but if when challenged the rules are found to contravene EU law, the rules are destined for the dustbin.Sorry, but I don't agree with that analogy!
Speed limits... it's not a case of us wanting to drive at 50mph when the speed limit is 30mph... it's almost the opposite – it's more a case of the speed limit being 50mph, but UEFA are restricting us to travel at 30mph... legally we are, and should be, allowed to travel at 50mph if we want!
The offside rule is a rule – a rule of a game that has to be abided by for anybody participating in said game... FFP is a law imposed by UEFA, which has to abide by external laws... for example, in the past there have been rules saying black people couldn't sit on certain seats of buses, or women were not allowed in certain parts of clubs etc. – these 'rules' have since been rightly abolished because they are illegal – as is restricting a businesses trade. Organisations can set any rule they like, but it has to abide by law... look at the outcome of the Bosman trial.
ThankyouYes, we get to present our side, hence Pannick being involved.
But it will be behind closed doors - CAS is an arbitration service, so it has to be confidential.
Are we expecting this to be concluded before the start of next season?
Possibly, if it doesn't go to VAR that is!
Exeter Blue I am here
Well-Known Member
Perhaps you didn't get my analogy, but that's exactly what I meant. UEFA can set all the rules they like, but if when challenged the rules are found to contravene EU law, the rules are destined for the dustbin.
Are they though? My understanding of Stefan Borson’s excellent piece on the 93:20 podcast was that CAS had previously confirmed that FFP was compatible with EU competition law (see below). A Court may take a different view, but I don’t think we would be wise to bank on it.
From the 93:20 podcast....
“For completeness, it seems to me that City are on less firm ground on the sort of well-trodden arguments UEFA rolled out in CAS 2018/A/5808 AC Milan v. UEFA. UEFA has successfully argued that clubs voluntarily submit to the rules and regulations of UEFA in order to participate in the European club championships. In particular it appears that UEFA will continue to argue that FFP does not breach competition law, EU competition law is not directly applicable to FFP generally and CAS jurisprudence has confirmed that the CL & FFP Regulations are compatible with EU competition law. This is likely to be relatively safe ground for UEFA at CAS – areas that have been tested before and more difficult for CAS to overturn in any meaningful way.”
Gareth Barry Conlon
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Perhaps you didn't get my analogy, but that's exactly what I meant. UEFA can set all the rules they like, but if when challenged the rules are found to contravene EU law, the rules are destined for the dustbin.
This is the nuts of it.
I would describe it as Terms & Conditions of the UEFA CL. They will argue we signed up to the Ts&Cs and they restrict investment. We will argue the Ts&Cs are unlawful (competition law). The legal decision would come down to can the participants agree between themselves to restrict their investment and is that ok under the wording of competition law. It will be very technical and could go either way. The way I see it is that if we win then the whole approach to FFP across all the leagues gets voided as it is all set up to restrict investment of a certain type. It would be much easier to restrict other things like debt levels, wages and losses.
Bodicoteblue
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As you say - a court may take a different view.Are they though? My understanding of Stefan Borson’s excellent piece on the 93:20 podcast was that CAS had previously confirmed that FFP was compatible with EU competition law (see below). A Court may take a different view, but I don’t think we would be wise to bank on it.
From the 93:20 podcast....
“For completeness, it seems to me that City are on less firm ground on the sort of well-trodden arguments UEFA rolled out in CAS 2018/A/5808 AC Milan v. UEFA. UEFA has successfully argued that clubs voluntarily submit to the rules and regulations of UEFA in order to participate in the European club championships. In particular it appears that UEFA will continue to argue that FFP does not breach competition law, EU competition law is not directly applicable to FFP generally and CAS jurisprudence has confirmed that the CL & FFP Regulations are compatible with EU competition law. This is likely to be relatively safe ground for UEFA at CAS – areas that have been tested before and more difficult for CAS to overturn in any meaningful way.”
I don’t know what qualifications CAS have to judge the legality of ffp, in relation to eu competition law, and as we seem to be challenging only possible due process breaches there, then their views on ffp in itself, may be irrelevant.
The real challenge to ffp’s legitimacy in law can only be made in a court of law.
Dribble
Well-Known Member
I gave the analogy of setting up a Fast & Furious Speed Club. The rules of the club are you can drive at any speed you like. However the UK speed limit is 30. If the speed club challenge the speed limit, who's going to win? The speed club rules, or the law of the land?Are they though? My understanding of Stefan Borson’s excellent piece on the 93:20 podcast was that CAS had previously confirmed that FFP was compatible with EU competition law (see below). A Court may take a different view, but I don’t think we would be wise to bank on it.
From the 93:20 podcast....
“For completeness, it seems to me that City are on less firm ground on the sort of well-trodden arguments UEFA rolled out in CAS 2018/A/5808 AC Milan v. UEFA. UEFA has successfully argued that clubs voluntarily submit to the rules and regulations of UEFA in order to participate in the European club championships. In particular it appears that UEFA will continue to argue that FFP does not breach competition law, EU competition law is not directly applicable to FFP generally and CAS jurisprudence has confirmed that the CL & FFP Regulations are compatible with EU competition law. This is likely to be relatively safe ground for UEFA at CAS – areas that have been tested before and more difficult for CAS to overturn in any meaningful way.”
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