UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

What do you think will be the outcome of the CAS hearing?

  • Two-year ban upheld

    Votes: 197 13.1%
  • Ban reduced to one year

    Votes: 422 28.2%
  • Ban overturned and City exonerated

    Votes: 815 54.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 65 4.3%

  • Total voters
    1,499
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I hope they keep it up now CAS are involved.

From Rule 43 of the CAS Regs

Proceedings under these Procedural Rules are confidential. The parties, the arbitrators
and CAS undertake not to disclose to any third party any facts or other information
relating to the dispute or the proceedings without the permission of CAS.
And as such, don’t expect to hear anyone from the club responding or addressing any of the pseudo legal balloney on Twitter.
There will be no leaking to the media from our side.
One thing clear about The Sheik and Al Mubarak, is that they know how to keep their powder dry.

I don’t know who in here knows what. There seems to be many with a legal background but the mood in here seems to swing with every twitter revelation that we all agree are not a reliable way of finding anything out.
It doesn’t matter who says what about where they got their leaked information from.

One thing is for sure. I trust that City’s management team and legal advisers do know what they are doing. If they think this is the best course of action then I trust them.
 
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Seems to me that unless our appeal forbids it then UEFA will issue their judgement ( next week if rumours are to be believed) and then this current appeal ( against the referral process) will be considered together with City's further appeal against the details and validity of any punishment handed down.
City are probably aware of this and IMO the current appeal represents a warning shot across UEFA's bows that our final appeal will be substantial and significant and will be two pronged against both the process and the judgement.

This all day.

Don't know why people are getting do anti CAS. From the cases I have seen involving them they appear to be pretty fair and competent. You don't hear many, if any, disgruntled voices about them.

If,as is suggested, UEFA rushed this process to get it through in time then CAS will, undoubtedly, pick it up. They will also look at the changes leveled against us and our rebuttals. They are not biased and in the hands of UEFA. If they were biased at all they wouldn't have lasted as long as they have.
 
Perhaps our lawyers can see a way to go to the Swiss Courts, if necessary.

If UEFA try to impose a ban on us that is unreasonable by bending their rules to suit or by ignoring facts, we may have cause for legal action in the jurisdiction that governs the MOU, which I've not read beyond scanning what's on previous pages.

I don't know Swiss Law and I'm not expert on English Law but I've had plenty of interaction with legal folk in my working life and even had to study the basics of contract law as part of my training way back. I am pretty sure that in UK contracts can be deemed unenforceable or parts can. Also, parties to a contract often end up having legal disputes over those contracts. The thing often is that you have to go to court to find out.

We have at least one experienced lawyer who uses this forum who could comment but I have seen nothing yet to convince me City cannot make a legal challenge in court but I'd like to hear an expert opinion because I may be wrong.

Are you referring to me? I've just had a look at the document based on which Castles wrote his story. On its face, it does seem to be binding. And it does expressly exclude the right to apply to a "state court", which isn't defined but which a court, I suspect, would view as including both the Swiss Federal Supreme Court and the ECJ. The document is governed by Swiss law, so there are two questions:

- under what circumstances does Swiss law allow a contract that purports to be binding to be treated as non-binding?
and
- under what circumstances does Swiss law allow a challenge in a state court to an arbitral award when the arbitration clause in the relevant contract precludes such a challenge?

I have no qualifications to advise on matters of Swiss law. Nonetheless, I've had a quick dig around and discovered certain rules of Swiss law that can be used in some cases with regard to the above questions.

1. Swiss private law has an overriding duty for parties to act in good faith “in the exercise of his or her rights and in the performance of his or her obligations” and further provides that a “manifest abuse of a right” is afforded no legal protection (see here in Article 2 of the Swiss Civil Code - https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19070042/201901010000/210.pdf). Further, it seems that parties can be barred from invoking matters agreed upon between them if they’re regarded as in breach of Article 2 (see the discussion here on numbered pages 285 to 288 - https://www.zora.uzh.ch/id/eprint/160651/1/Picht_Studen__Chap11_-_Civil_Law__Introduction_to_Swiss_Law.pdf).

2. There are cases in which a challenge in a state court to an arbitral award has been permitted, but the wording of the relevant arbitration clause seems to be crucial. I'm afraid I'm simply not equipped to deal with those kinds of subtleties under Swiss law (see section 6 here: https://www.globallegalinsights.com/practice-areas/litigation-and-dispute-resolution-laws-and-regulations/switzerland).

I'm not qualified to say and am absolutely NOT saying that the above would be applicable to the current issues between MCFC and UEFA because I just don't know how the relevant rules work in practice. However, they serve as examples of why there can sometimes be successful litigation challenging even ostensibly watertight contractual provisions agreed by the parties to be binding on them or an agreement for dispute resolution through mandatory arbitration of which the result purports to be binding on both parties.

What I will say is that I presume one of MCFC's three top law firms who are supposedly on this case is able to provide authoritative advice from top-class Swiss lawyers. I also presume that, in developing a strategy for any potential further litigation after the two bites we'll have at the CAS cherry (the current procedural case and a potential appeal against a future sanction from the AC) have been exhausted, they're aware of the purported constraints imposed by the document Castles cites. It would be extraordinarily unprofessional if they aren't.

I suspect there already is a strategy in place to deal with the eventuality that we end up with a ban notwithstanding the appeals to CAS or the eventuality that we consider further post-CAS steps necessary to deal with reputational damage even if we avoid a ban. If so, that strategy will take into account the document in question.

As I’ve said before, the bottom line is that no one on the outside of this matter has enough information to offer a remotely credible analysis of the state of play. City will have the very best lawyers in the business working on this and we simply have to trust that the strategy they come up with will be the optimum one for the club in the circumstances.

And that also means us on here being relatively sanguine and not panicking when people come along quoting arguments that our opponents will likely run, as Conn did the other day and as Castles is doing here. MCFC know what our opponents' arguments are already and, when the time comes, will be as well prepared to combat them as it’s possible to be. I hope it's enough for us to succeed, but we won't and can't know that until the time comes, I'm afraid.
 
I’m not gonna post the link, but Duncan Arseholes seems to think there’s a Memorandum of Understanding in place, which City are parties to, that prevents any club banned from the CL because of FFP violations, from then having recourse to the Courts to challenge that ban. Behind the Times paywall, so I haven’t read it. Anyone with access able to give us a summation.....and, yeh, I know it’s dopey Duncan
Tell that to M. Bosman!
 
We have seen these type of rules challenged and defeated in European courts of law before in the Bosman ruling, below is a short extract of national and UEFA rules being completely overturned in a Court when UEFA thought they could do as they wish.

‘The Bosman ruling also prohibited domestic football leagues in EU member states, and also UEFA, from imposing quotas on foreign players to the extent that they discriminated against nationals of EU states. At that time, many leagues placed quotas restricting the number of non-nationals allowed on member teams. Also, UEFA had a rule that prohibited teams in its competitions, namely the Champions League, Cup Winners' Cup and UEFA Cup, from naming more than three "foreign" players in their squads for any game. After the ruling, quotas could still be imposed, but could only be used to restrict the number of non-EU players on each team’.

Many ‘legally binding’ agreements are challenged in real Courts all the time, whether they are minor like ‘pre-nups’ or major cases such as massive companies creating ‘Cartels’ and stitching up competitors from challenging their dominant positions in whichever field they are operating in.

The thing that usually prevents such challenges is the money such challenges cost.

I am sure our owners are aware of the variances of our challenge to UEFA, I have no idea how far they are willing to pursue that challenge but they have definitely drawn the line in the sand and the Chairman looked very determined in his end of season interview.

Remember their are several cases against us at the moment, this initial challenge is important for all of them.
All take note of this post. Spot on.
Generally speaking, such agreements are 'binding in honour only'. I'm not cognisant of Swiss law, but it would be highly unusual if an agreement to rule out legal remedies were upheld by a court in Europe. What could get in the way is costs and time, especially if UEFA tried to ban us from CL while the case was live, which may in itself be actionable.
Comments like "it looks legally binding" are of no value, unless you know Swiss law. I don't, do you? But I bet our lawyers do. Patience, my friends.
 
Let’s say we have flouted certain rules regarding FFP.

Now we cannot surely be alone in this, other clubs not currently under or been subject to investigation surely have and are doing the same.i refuse to believe the cartels aren’t doing dodgy stuff to circumvent the rules
 
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