UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[cjn]

So because of the spirit of the game they fine us 30m and 2 year ban?! But a racist club gets fined a pittance or still stay in the competition?!

The post I was responding to said we hadn't mislead UEFA in any way. Which...like, come on man. I'm as upset as all of you that we got this punishment, which is unfair in my eyes. But we're not 100% innocent here either.

 

[kaz7]

What's wrong with what I said? Even if we haven't broken any actual rules (which I would probably bet on), we were pretty clearly looking to exploit any possible loophole or grey area. And the whole Etihad cashflow situation obviously wasn't contemplated as being okay when they drew them up. That's why I said spirit of the rules.

Every single business does it

 

[give it to gordon]

Lot of City blue tinted shades here. We're not innocent, we've known that for years. Its funny how supposed adults can be so biased just because they "bleed for their club". I agree the penalty itself is harsh and think we should fight to have it reduced but we deserve to pay some form of penalty.
I keep seeing the sentiment "other clubs do it all the time." If that makes skirting and breaking rules okay I sure as hell hope you aren't raising children or have a job that overlaps with my interests.
That it's us... of course they are twisting the knife and piling on but we fucked up and we should be held accountable.
That this is all some elaborate anti-City conspiracy is rubbish and makes me realize how much sport- as much as it can unite- does just as much to polarize.

you say we aren't innocent so why didn't our owner just take the ban ? Why are we fighting it ?

 

[HarrytheBlue]

While it obviously isn't that simple for a bunch of reasons, the fact is that litigation is messy and the inherent uncertainly of a trial, even when you mostly have the facts on your side, makes the whole thing an extremely risky proposition. I'm sure we will have the best counsel that money can buy, but there is a very good reason that some 90% of lawsuits end up in a pre-trial settlement, when you go before a judge you just never fucking know. In my opinion we've fucked up royally by allowing it to get anywhere close to this far.

Even though CAS is predominantly about due process being followed, our lawyers will, in my humble opinion, constantly refer to the illegally hacked information, the lead investigator saying he wanted us banned before the investigation started. CAS will say 'That may be true, but we're not here to consider that....' but our lawyers will get that in. I worked in the court system for seven years (nothing of this scale), but lawyers always paint the picture of the other side they want the judge to see.

 

[John Wayne]

Lot of City blue tinted shades here. We're not innocent, we've known that for years. Its funny how supposed adults can be so biased just because they "bleed for their club". I agree the penalty itself is harsh and think we should fight to have it reduced but we deserve to pay some form of penalty.
I keep seeing the sentiment "other clubs do it all the time." If that makes skirting and breaking rules okay I sure as hell hope you aren't raising children or have a job that overlaps with my interests.
That it's us... of course they are twisting the knife and piling on but we fucked up and we should be held accountable.
That this is all some elaborate anti-City conspiracy is rubbish and makes me realize how much sport- as much as it can unite- does just as much to polarize.

Tell me which rules we've broken, what the evidence specifically is against us and why the penalty should be reduced.

 

[cjn]

What do you sugest we do? roll over so they can keep coming back or stand up and finish it? In 2014 we couldn't see this coming,we took a punishment expecting that to be the end of it,this is spiteful shite lead by our domestic rivals and the protected cartel,it will never end if we dont do this

Of course not, I didn't suggest doing any of those things. Now that we're here we have to fight it.

 

[VOOMER]

Lot of City blue tinted shades here. We're not innocent, we've known that for years. Its funny how supposed adults can be so biased just because they "bleed for their club". I agree the penalty itself is harsh and think we should fight to have it reduced but we deserve to pay some form of penalty.
I keep seeing the sentiment "other clubs do it all the time." If that makes skirting and breaking rules okay I sure as hell hope you aren't raising children or have a job that overlaps with my interests.
That it's us... of course they are twisting the knife and piling on but we fucked up and we should be held accountable.
That this is all some elaborate anti-City conspiracy is rubbish and makes me realize how much sport- as much as it can unite- does just as much to polarize.

So you work for UEFA and are part of their investigating team?

 

[bluethrunthru]

One aspect of this is that football is effectively beginning to eat itself. Nobody will want to put money into a club now because rules are subject to change and be retrospectively applied. Why take the risk and the threat to your personal integrity? Once SKY and BT see they are the main effective money streams where is the incentive to up the ante?

I am not saying our owners will leave but look at Nigel Wray at Saracens. Once sanctions applied he just walked away from the club. Basically in England the Premier League is confirming itself as TV's bitch and quite probably ending the gravy train.

 

[cjn]

Every single business does it

And if you get caught there are consequences. We did something to piss off the regulator and they're coming after us for stuff that other people get away with. That's the way the world works.

 

[CityPar]

I agree that CAS will not care about the leaks. That's not their job. But it is clear from City's statements that we are going all the way whatever CAS says. We have no choice but to take UEFA on head-on. This battle is about CFG posing a global threat to EUFA's position. No one would dispute that UEFA is a corrupt organisation. There is no point City co-operating with UEFA. Why would City send confidential business information to an organisation staffed by our political enemies and commercial rivals? And worse than that, an organisation that has been systematically leaking private information to our commercial rivals and a hostile media. We would be stupid to co-operate with UEFA.

If we go to court after CAS we'll have to do this anyway. There's no getting away from it. The question is where do City want to draw the line?

 

[Zenmanc]

Why are we fighting it ?

Because it's a devastating ban with wide reaching ramifications. Of course you fight it.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

While it obviously isn't that simple for a bunch of reasons, the fact is that litigation is messy and the inherent uncertainly of a trial, even when you mostly have the facts on your side, makes the whole thing an extremely risky proposition. I'm sure we will have the best counsel that money can buy, but there is a very good reason that some 90% of lawsuits end up in a pre-trial settlement, when you go before a judge you just never fucking know. In my opinion we've fucked up royally by allowing it to get anywhere close to this far.

It's not simple but it is interesting. FFP founder Platini is arrested in Qatar World Cup investigation involving Sarkozy and PSG; City's owners believe Pinto hacking may be linked to Qatari agents (suggests Ziegler in the Times yesterday); Qatari PSG boss joins UEFA's top team and PSG are let off the hook; then after a series of leaks City are thrown out of Europe after an investigation led by Yves Leterme (the man who brokered the PSG deal) I am as sceptical as anyone about conspiracy theories but what can't be disputed is that Abu Dhabi and Qatar are on different sides in a very bloody war in the Middle East at present and there's a lot of dirty tricks going on. I am not saying all these episodes are linked but it does show you the sort of climate CFG is operating in.

 

[City_Sean]

Easy mistake to make when we have the BBC peddling that particular untruth!

Was it Aabar who were part of the email thread whereby that Simon Pearce said Mansour would pay x amount of the sponsorship money? I can't seem to find the original Der Speigl piece on it.

 

[Zenmanc]

Tell me which rules we've broken, what the evidence specifically is against us and why the penalty should be reduced.

You're right, we've done absolutely nothing that could be even questioned. No multi billion dollar competition driven company ever does anything on the edge of the rules.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

What's wrong with what I said? Even if we haven't broken any actual rules (which I would probably bet on), we were pretty clearly looking to exploit any possible loophole or grey area. And the whole Etihad cashflow situation obviously wasn't contemplated as being okay when they drew them up. That's why I said spirit of the rules.

Think for a minute about what "the spirit" of the rules is.

 

[Pablo ZZZ Peroni]

As Mark Stephens, a top UK lawyer, has said today: "Interestingly there is no precedent for UEFA second guessing what is the correct amount for commercial sponsorship deals."

Can anyone enlighten me on the mechanism that UEFA uses to assess "market value"? Is it a scientific formula? Equally, isn't the value of a sponsorship what it's worth to the sponsor rather than the sponsored?

UEFA rely on professional and independent experts. In the original settlement process they used PwC on the accountancy side and a company called Octagon for the sponsorship values.

In City's case during the settlement negotiations and reported as part of the leaks via the French media the figures for 2012/2013 were:

2012/2013
Etihad £65,000,000 actual sponsorship ( this figure actually varies a bit depending which leaks publication you read - there is lot's out there and not just Der Speigel)

Octagon calculated the maximum asset package valuation was £60,000,000 and the Octagon actual client valuation was maximum £50,000,000.

UEFA subsequently accepted the Etihad deal was broadly fair market value and even David Conn has published this.

 

[give it to gordon]

Because it's a devastating ban with wide reaching ramifications. Of course you fight it.

nah don't get it you say we are guilty our owners are very successful people and wont pick a fight they didn't think they could win.

 

[Zenmanc]

So you work for UEFA and are part of their investigating team?

Must be a weird life to assume everything you support is lily white and unquestionable. You don't get such consequences for doing absolutely nothing.

 

[mancityvstoke]

You're right, we've done absolutely nothing that could be even questioned. No multi billion dollar competition driven company ever does anything on the edge of the rules.

Remind me to never get arrested with you

 

[waspish]

The post I was responding to said we hadn't mislead UEFA in any way. Which...like, come on man. I'm as upset as all of you that we got this punishment, which is unfair in my eyes. But we're not 100% innocent here either.

Its a pretty grey area because we didn’t break any rules and like I said the punishment for spirit of the game is a bit ott.