UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[MillionMilesAway]

Fazzakerley.
This statement by Khaldoon is what I've always relied on.
If we lose at CAS then the statement cannot be correct and the Club will have been let down.
I'm not convinced about us 'going after the process' rather than the actual facts surrounding the allegation @MillionMilesAway .
It's the facts of the allegation that are the primary issue.
The process is important but secondary.
What does 'going after the process' even mean?
CAS could decide the process was flawed but find that we were still 'guilty'.
CAS is not a court and the barrier to establishing 'guilt' is lower.
Unless the evidence of our innocence is conclusive CAS could decide UEFA's suspicions are sufficient to rule against us.
As @Damanino has stated, he feels that it's 50/50 at CAS and that has to concern us all.

Hi Len
I meant that they'd go after the flaws in the process followed. If that's proven flawed, it can make the whole case unproven.

I agree that the facts are important, and the ideal outcome is CAS saying the conclusions aren't supported by the facts. That might be harder to prove to CAS' satisfaction, but they might decide that the emails alone are not sufficient to come to a conclusion (it's an interesting question as to what else they might have to act on).

My understanding is that CAS assess the process used, whether the conclusion is reasonable based on the information, and whether the punishment is reasonable.

I'll probably let this thread alone now - it's way too fast to keep track of.

 

[SWP's back]

I’ve read a lot about financial fraud and it’s how you disclose where funds are from that’s important.

Bollocks or you’d understand what ‘money laundering’ is and you’d certainly not be accusing the City hierarchy of it.

 

[deano ou812]

I’m not totally clued up on all the in depth rules and regulations of ffp,or the inner workings of uefa but from start to finish this whole episode now could see a possible changing of the football landscape if ffp is brought crashing down,the last big change was probably the Bosman ruling ( although VAR could be seen as the last big change in fairness) when it was claimed it could ruin football,this could be a huge game changer if it happens...

 

[Marvin]

If I were City I would ensure the CAS hearing rules next season, and not this season.

If it rules this season the there's a good chance 5th is opened for Man Utd.

 

[City Man]

Lol, if club didn't put us in this position, we would be outside of CL five years ago when they tried to stop us while the project was in toddler phase and we would be worse than we will be in the case of ban eventually being held. I hope, after putting some thinking into it, you do realize that there was no chance of us passing the FFP and signing the likes of KDB if we weren't creative. And as consequence no centurion season or breaking dippers' hearts last year.

As someone said few days ago, what we have done last few years is enough success for lifetime if needed, and if we haven't doone it the way the club did, it probably would never happen again.

Agreed. One way or another, "legally" or "illegally", we've broken through the UEFA glass ceiling and now it's up to the owners to ensure we stay in the upper floor. Two years if that's what it is to be is a short time in football.

 

[mat]

If I were City I would ensure the CAS hearing rules next season, and not this season.

If it rules this season the there's a good chance 5th is opened for Man Utd.

Good point that.

Drag them ****s in as they expect to lose a lot of kit sponsorship money should they fail to qualify for CL.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

Though not completely ruling it out, I’d be surprised if it was the latter. I think Der Spiegel released the “juiciest” bits in their articles, and each subsequent article got weaker in content. If they had something more damning, I doubt they would’ve hung onto it without revealing it.

I would be surprised if Der Spiegel have got all 70 million documents from the stolen Pinto cache. Isn't it more likely they have a small batch which presumably they have paid Pinto or one of his agents for? Is it possible there are more documents floating about somewhere. Only a tiny fraction of those hacked have been published (lots of them are probably not newsworthy) Stuff from the Panama papers has been leakng out in dribs and drabs for years. We will probably find out when Pinto comes to trial...if he survives long enough.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

You don't get hit with such a penalty if you've done absolutely wrong.

Tell that to the Birmingham Six.

 

[Marvin]

Good point that.

Drag them ****s in as they expect to lose a lot of kit sponsorship money should they fail to qualify for CL.

I'm not clear where the Premier League are with their enquiry but to reduce the risk of any PL action this season I would ensure that Man Utd don't benefit this season. Of course they might not even finish 5th.

CAS appeal suspends everything because even the UEFA statement says the ruling is subject to the CAS appeal.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

We're no longer in UEFA's courtroom.

I know, we were on Friday when they made their call though that was my point.

 

[dave_blue12]

Good post on rag central amidst a sea of ignorant shite.

GazTheLegend
Full Member
Joined

Jul 22, 2014
Messages

1,334
It's actually a ridiculous decision.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36706262

If UEFA were so against all this state ownership stuff, why did they allow Silvio Berlusconi to own AC Milan, or allow the principality of Monaco to run a tax haven for players, and that sort of thing?

Like - it's NOW they choose to step in? Nobody will ever convince me that all of this isn't because the City fans boo the UEFA anthem, which I can 100% get behind. feck FIFA, feck UEFA, hypricitical shits and rotten from the core upwards and always have been. Never sat well with me that they literally admitted they fixed draws and nobody ever denied it and they just laughed at it happening in the 2000's. Ferguson called it and he was right.

Now I realise it sounds sort of weird as a Manchester United fan and Manc, but I actually quite like the Stockport bluenoses despite everything else, their fans are alright. Thing is, until they stop targeting City and instead try to actually be fair and punish PSG as well as all the rest of them (Juventus are 100% about some dodginess, they're running at some stupid 80% of gross revenue level right now, there's something behind that), then it looks like victimisation to me.

 

[Centurions]

Read my post again. Think about it. Then if you want to ask that question again, you still haven’t understood it.

Sorry bud, it's quite possibly me but I'm none the wiser on it.

Edit: NVM, I've just seen @BluessinceHydeRoad s post.

 

[Len Rum]

If I were City I would ensure the CAS hearing rules next season, and not this season.
If it rules this season the there's a good chance 5th is opened for Man Utd.

You've obviously made the assumption there Marv that CAS rule against us.
That being the case it might be better to get it done and out of the way. If say the ban was reduced to one year then it would be over at the ed of next season.

 

[cleavers]

If I were City I would ensure the CAS hearing rules next season, and not this season.

If it rules this season the there's a good chance 5th is opened for Man Utd.

I'd have thought that was the least of City's worries right now.

 

[OB1]

This cannot be stressed enough: the only thing City are guilty of is having an owner who wants to increase the value of his investment by investing in it.

UEFA are attempting to stop our owner following standard business practice and they (UEFA) have to be stopped.

 

[SidJames]

I’m not totally clued up on all the in depth rules and regulations of ffp,or the inner workings of uefa but from start to finish this whole episode now could see a possible changing of the football landscape if ffp is brought crashing down,the last big change was probably the Bosman ruling ( although VAR could be seen as the last big change in fairness) when it was claimed it could ruin football,this could be a huge game changer if it happens...

I am of this opinion.

There will be serious ramifications for the game whatever the outcome.

FFP in its present format is keeping money out the game.Investors will think investment is pretty pointless having no chance of ever attaining an elite status.Sure there is no guarantee investment means success.But it helps keep the dream alive.Having restrictive, anti competitive,cartel protecting legislation in place before you even start the journey,then seriously whats the point of starting the journey to begin with.

UEFA get their way,then well come back to the 1980s.

We see FFP exposed for what it really is,and abolished.

Then i think clubs like Everton,Newcastle,Leeds etc will be become attractive for serious investment by rich owners.

The game will become more competitive. A level playing field.I am cool with that.

 

[Kenward Garg]

Wasn't it the people behind football is fixed say City has moles in the camp?
Might be something in that.

"Oxbridge educated Vicky Kloss is Chief Communications Officer at the club. Yet on foreign trips she is the biggest source of cybersecurity weakness in the entire enterprise..."

https://footballisfixed.blogspot.com/2019/12/3-posts-of-corruption-past-present-yet.html

 

[Len Rum]

Hi Len
I meant that they'd go after the flaws in the process followed. If that's proven flawed, it can make the whole case unproven.
I agree that the facts are important, and the ideal outcome is CAS saying the conclusions aren't supported by the facts. That might be harder to prove to CAS' satisfaction, but they might decide that the emails alone are not sufficient to come to a conclusion (it's an interesting question as to what else they might have to act on).
My understanding is that CAS assess the process used, whether the conclusion is reasonable based on the information, and whether the punishment is reasonable.
I'll probably let this thread alone now - it's way too fast to keep track of.

Fair points.
If the CAS process takes the maximum time speculated ( fifteen months), I'll be a nervous wreck!

 

[stan bowles]

If I were City I would ensure the CAS hearing rules next season, and not this season.

If it rules this season the there's a good chance 5th is opened for Man Utd.

You don't think Gill will be using all his influence to ensure it meets and makes it's judgement in time for next season ? It seems highly likely he has someone feeding him highly confidential information directly from UEFAs IC and AC which he then directly or indirectly leaks to the pro United media e.g. NYT.

 

[WestGorton]

Good post on rag central amidst a sea of ignorant shite.

GazTheLegend
Full Member
Joined

Jul 22, 2014
Messages

1,334
It's actually a ridiculous decision.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36706262

If UEFA were so against all this state ownership stuff, why did they allow Silvio Berlusconi to own AC Milan, or allow the principality of Monaco to run a tax haven for players, and that sort of thing?

Like - it's NOW they choose to step in? Nobody will ever convince me that all of this isn't because the City fans boo the UEFA anthem, which I can 100% get behind. feck FIFA, feck UEFA, hypricitical shits and rotten from the core upwards and always have been. Never sat well with me that they literally admitted they fixed draws and nobody ever denied it and they just laughed at it happening in the 2000's. Ferguson called it and he was right.

Now I realise it sounds sort of weird as a Manchester United fan and Manc, but I actually quite like the Stockport bluenoses despite everything else, their fans are alright. Thing is, until they stop targeting City and instead try to actually be fair and punish PSG as well as all the rest of them (Juventus are 100% about some dodginess, they're running at some stupid 80% of gross revenue level right now, there's something behind that), then it looks like victimisation to me.

That is an excellent resume, the reds I know always said they fixed the draws too