UK far right trouble July/August 24

[bluethrunthru]

It's bizarre. They might terrify people into not mentioning it for fear of being labelled racist and banged up at the mercy of the gangs, but everyone is thinking if it quacks like a duck and looks like one, it probably is a duck.

and thats the problem - looking and quacking is not sufficient proof - for example you'd need DNA - Imagine the prosecution saying " well m'lud he walks like a duck, he quacks like a duck so he must be a duck"
The defence "have you had DNA testing and expert inspection of the animal in the dock to confirm its a duck - I mean to me it looks a bit goosey, I heard someone in the public gallery it could be a coot or a grebe. Have you consulted any waterfowl experts?"
Prosecution " your Honours this is clearly a duck" defence " your Honour there is no scientific proof this is a duck and we suggest the case is dropped"

That is now what is going on with the right wing press and commentators and downright loons - the Police have said the murders are being investigated by Merseyside Police and Anti-Terror office is dealing with the ricin and the pdf download but they will scream at the moon and risk an exchange like above but instead linking terror offences with child murder because they have no care for the 3 dead girls they just want to score points against the Govt or against Muslims or just people who don't look the same as them

 

[west didsblue]

If the general opinion from the public is that it was a terrorist attack, what difference should it make to people’s response?
The answer is none. Whatever the killer’s motivation we need to let the law take its course and not start acting as a vigilante mob which is what happened in August with the knuckle daggers stoked up by dangerous agitators online.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

If the general opinion from the public is that it was a terrorist attack, what difference should it make to people’s response?
The answer is none. Whatever the killer’s motivation we need to let the law take its course and not start acting as a vigilante mob which is what happened in August with the knuckle daggers stoked up by dangerous agitators online.

Absolutely.

 

[paulchapo]

and thats the problem - looking and quacking is not sufficient proof - for example you'd need DNA - Imagine the prosecution saying " well m'lud he walks like a duck, he quacks like a duck so he must be a duck"
The defence "have you had DNA testing and expert inspection of the animal in the dock to confirm its a duck - I mean to me it looks a bit goosey, I heard someone in the public gallery it could be a coot or a grebe. Have you consulted any waterfowl experts?"
Prosecution " your Honours this is clearly a duck" defence " your Honour there is no scientific proof this is a duck and we suggest the case is dropped"

That is now what is going on with the right wing press and commentators and downright loons - the Police have said the murders are being investigated by Merseyside Police and Anti-Terror office is dealing with the ricin and the pdf download but they will scream at the moon and risk an exchange like above but instead linking terror offences with child murder because they have no care for the 3 dead girls they just want to score points against the Govt or against Muslims or just people who don't look the same as them

Even the most basic halfwit knows it has to be proven in a court of law. Lots of people's first thoughts when it happened were it had to be a terrorist attack. The police and media were quick to play that theory down and I understand their reasons. As they release more facts it appears people's initial thoughts were correct.

Of course extremists on both sides will use horrific events like these to score points and push their agendas. That has and will always be the case. Forgetting any agendas, race or religion ( I think initial reports were the culprit was a Christian) if somebody goes into an event related to Taylor Swift, who had herself been the subject of threats, then starts slaughtering everybody in the vicinity until stopped, most people would assume it was terror related. That's not racism, it's listening to reports of what happened and drawing their own conclusions.

 

[KDB Fan]

Or of course could be just an example of a Police investigation running its course - there are lawyers and ex-job on here who will be able to explain why this was not revealed the next day.

Also worth noting he faces terror charges but so far the ONGOING INVESTIGATION is not linking the stabbings to the ricin terror charges.

That doesn't really address the point that elements of the state and BBC claimed it was false/misinformation to infer that the attacker was a Jihadi and it turns out he's being charged for reading a Jihadi manual.

A shocking cover-up and the fact that people are being locked up for speaking the truth is an absolute lowpoint for our country. We are an international laughing stock and being governed by tyrants.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Even the most basic halfwit knows it has to be proven in a court of law. Lots of people's first thoughts when it happened were it had to be a terrorist attack. The police and media were quick to play that theory down and I understand their reasons. As they release more facts it appears people's initial thoughts were correct.

Of course extremists on both sides will use horrific events like these to score points and push their agendas. That has and will always be the case. Forgetting any agendas, race or religion ( I think initial reports were the culprit was a Christian) if somebody goes into an event related to Taylor Swift, who had herself been the subject of threats, then starts slaughtering everybody in the vicinity until stopped, most people would assume it was terror related. That's not racism, it's listening to reports of what happened and drawing their own conclusions.

This chap was the chief prosecutor for the North West now retired but has far more legal training than any of us - read and learn

 

[bluethrunthru]

That doesn't really address the point that elements of the state and BBC claimed it was false/misinformation to infer that the attacker was a Jihadi and it turns out he's being charged for reading a Jihadi manual.

A shocking cover-up and the fact that people are being locked up for speaking the truth is an absolute lowpoint for our country. We are an international laughing stock.

You are totally wrong - can you tell me the date upon which the Police and the state knew what you claim they knew? Can you tell me who covered things up and for how long between that date and today? Can you link the information released today to the killing of those 3 girls because the Police aren't.

Can you also link the events in Southport and across the UK to the truth those people spoke? If they had information why did they not pass it to the authorities rather than to followers on line? Can you explain who has been locked up for "speaking the truth" and what truths they spoke based on what was known at the time?

I am here waiting for your detailed response.

 

[paulchapo]

This chap was the chief prosecutor for the North West now retired but has far more legal training than any of us - read and learn

I don't need to learn anything, I'm more than aware of not prejudicing a trial. My point was most people, it now appears rightly, assumed it to be a terrorist attack. I'm sure in the past the police and media used to refer to such attacks as, "In what appears to be a terrorist attack." Again I understand their reasons for being cautious and trying to reduce tensions but that decision backfired badly. Now as more facts emerge it will inflame tensions again.

 

[KDB Fan]

You are totally wrong - can you tell me the date upon which the Police and the state knew what you claim they knew? Can you tell me who covered things up and for how long between that date and today? Can you link the information released today to the killing of those 3 girls because the Police aren't.

Can you also link the events in Southport and across the UK to the truth those people spoke? If they had information why did they not pass it to the authorities rather than to followers on line? Can you explain who has been locked up for "speaking the truth" and what truths they spoke based on what was known at the time?

I am here waiting for your detailed response.

I don't know what date the police found out but I'd suggest you're extremely gullible to think they found out about the Al Qaeda manual the day before the budget.

But as bad as withholding charging information from the public is, the worst cover-up/injustice is the branding of speculation about the attacker's motivations as misinformation/false/criminal when the Jihadi motive appears to be true (will have to word that carefully so I don't have the Gestapo at my house).

Locking people up for opinion/speculation is bad enough but when that opinion/speculation turns out to be true then it's even more tyrannical.

 

[Big Joe Corrigan]

I don't know what date the police found out but I'd suggest you're extremely gullible to think they found out about the Al Qaeda manual the day before the budget.

But as bad as withholding charging information from the public is, the worst cover-up/injustice is the branding of speculation about the attacker's motivations as misinformation/false/criminal when the Jihadi motive appears to be true (will have to word that carefully so I don't have the Gestapo at my house).

Locking people up for opinion/speculation is bad enough but when that opinion/speculation turns out to be true then it's even more tyrannical.

Who has been locked up for stating an opinion?