UK far right trouble

[BobKowalski]

You don't think stopping emergency vehicles causes any harm? In my opinion that's a very serious offence and if anyone's died as a result of stopping an ambulance, police officer, or fire engine from getting to a threat-to-life situation, arguably manslaughter. You cannot frame that as a non-violent offence.

Throwing soup at a painting is obviously a lot less serious than the above and a lot less serious than child rape. I'd agree the people locked up shouldn't be getting longer than a child rapist however, they still attempted to cause millions of pounds worth of property damage given the value of the painting so I don't think the sentence is out of line with the sentencing regime for property offences. If anything, you could argue it was lenient.

Are there any examples of Just Stop Oil protesters being imprisoned for speech offences or offensive tweets?

In order.

1. No, it isn’t serious. It’s bollocks and only applies to left leaning protests. Ambulances as we know never go to right leaning demos.
2. The damage was estimated at £10k worth of clean up.
3. No. As far as I am aware JOS did not try and instigate physical violence and/or mass race hate via social media. JOS were a non-violent organisation.

Good to note that you think a two year sentence for throwing soup is lenient whereas trying to burn people alive is simply a search for ‘truth and justice’. Damn you people get high on your own shite.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Ah, the classic ‘what about the ambulances full of sick children’ defence. Amazing bad luck. Whenever there was a JOS protest, fleets of ambulances were immediately diverted to the scene. GPS must have been on the blink.

What about the two years inside for throwing soup at a painting that the JOS got? Less or more deserving than rape? Is it possible the Govt targeted them politically because they did seem to receive disproportionate sentences for peaceful demonstrations?

The answer is yes JOS were treated differently for political reasons as the Tory Govt saw them as a threat to the State. In that context they are political prisoners and most people were happy to see them banged up for years because they hated them despite JOS posing no physical threat.

The recent riots/protests and their online agitators were equally seen as a threat to the State and the newly elected Govt. Unlike JOS there was physical violence and it was aimed at destabilising the Labour Govt and they clamped down hard in response.

The State always has, and always will, clamp down hard on what it perceives to be a threat to itself, be it real or imagined. It only becomes an issue when it’s your side or your beliefs that are on the receiving end. Those that are now decrying people being locked up for trying to stir up violence were demanding JOS be locked up for sitting in a road or chucking soup at a painting. We can all be a tad hypocritical over these issues depending on our viewpoint, but at least spare us the moral indignation at people being locked up for their ‘political views’ and freedom of expression because they couldn’t give a toss about it when it concerns ‘lefty’ issues they disagree with.

I might be wrong, but haven't the latest Just Stop Oil protesters been jailed under this government? If so you're talking about a state/establishment that straddles the political divide, we're in defence of the realm country?

I think the Just Stop Oil folk were buggered regardless of who was in number 10

For me what is more interesting is to speculate how the Tories would've dealt with the Southport riots, I've a feeling they would've treated it differently, who knows?

This issue is not just a left/right thing. The Just Stop oil folk who've been handed heavy sentences were front and centre of what took place, the Southport stuff is very different. I've no time for any of those folk who took part in the riots, and for those at the centre who received eye watering sentence? I'm more than okay with that, but some heavy sentences were handed out to peripheral figures that can only be justified through a political lens, a strong message to those who might be tempted to turn up, or post about it, and though I shed no tears for them, I'm not entirely comfortable with it and it's nothing to do with my politics.

 

[KDB Fan]

In order.

1. No, it isn’t serious. It’s bollocks and only applies to left leaning protests. Ambulances as we know never go to right leaning demos.
2. The damage was estimated at £10k worth of clean up.
3. No. As far as I am aware JOS did not try and instigate physical violence and/or mass race hate via social media. JOS were a non-violent organisation.

Good to note that you think a two year sentence for throwing soup is lenient whereas trying to burn people alive is simply a search for ‘truth and justice’. Damn you people get high on your own shite.

Well until you come up with more cases/examples, we'll have to disagree then. Not aware of anyone defending those trying to 'burn people alive' but I suppose it's easier to say that than deal with the facts.

 

[BobKowalski]

I might be wrong, but haven't the latest Just Stop Oil protesters been jailed under this government? If so you're talking about a state/establishment that straddles the political divide, we're in defence of the realm country?

I think the Just Stop Oil folk were buggered regardless of who was in number 10

For me what is more interesting is to speculate how the Tories would've dealt with the Southport riots, I've a feeling they would've treated it differently, who knows?

This issue is not just a left/right thing. The Just Stop oil folk who've been handed heavy sentences were front and centre of what took place, the Southport stuff is very different. I've not time for any of those folk who took part in the riots, and for those at the centre who received eye watering sentence? I'm more than okay with that, but some heavy sentences were handed out to peripheral figures that can only be justified through a political lens, a strong message to those who might be tempted to turn up, or post about it, and though I shed no tears for them, I'm not entirely comfortable with it and it's nothing to do with my politics.

The four/five years sentences were handed out in July this year a couple of weeks after the election so yes, you are correct. That it is a State/Establishment issue I would agree with. The State always punishes perceived threats more harshly. Too harshly with respect to JOS in my opinion - but no surprise there I guess :)

I’d also agree with the peripheral figures sometimes getting stomped too hard. The State always steps hard on the smaller fish as a way of sending out its message. Easy targets and all that. Equally, I’m also a bit ‘fuck em’ but that’s my own political bias showing.

 

[inbetween]

In order.

1. No, it isn’t serious. It’s bollocks and only applies to left leaning protests. Ambulances as we know never go to right leaning demos.
2. The damage was estimated at £10k worth of clean up.
3. No. As far as I am aware JOS did not try and instigate physical violence and/or mass race hate via social media. JOS were a non-violent organisation.

Good to note that you think a two year sentence for throwing soup is lenient whereas trying to burn people alive is simply a search for ‘truth and justice’. Damn you people get high on your own shite.

You need to read some of the case sentencing summaries for the JOS cases.

There's a list of the impacts from evidence given by the general public in court, one woman missed a critical cancer appointment, the Met police incurred costs over £1m on their own, not £10k. One Police officer was involved in a traffic accident whilst attending.

They planned maximum disruption beforehand, climbed gantries violated a court injuction and each had lists of past convictions. Are you really surprised that they were jailed and is this still a non-peaceful, non-disruptive protest? A 12 person jury and a judge disagreed.

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/R-v-Hallam-and-others.pdf

 

[BrianW]

The people who run the country have a strong aversion to riots.

If you cast your mind back to the 2001 riots, some chaps were given lengthy prison sentences for minor thefts that would normally incur a small fine at the most.

This is called 'deterrent sentencing' and not only am I in favour of it, I would like to see more. For example, I would like to see some nice deterrent sentences dished out to people carrying knives (without a lawful excuse) and drug dealers.

Anyway, the moral is don't fucking riot. Have a peaceful protest instead and obey the law and any instructions given to you by the cops. It's not rocket science.

 

[KDB Fan]

You need to read some of the case sentencing summaries for the JOS cases.

There's a list of the impacts from evidence given by the general public in court, one woman missed a critical cancer appointment, the Met police incurred costs over £1m on their own, not £10k. One Police officer was involved in a traffic accident whilst attending.

They planned maximum disruption beforehand, climbed gantries violated a court injuction and each had lists of past convictions. Are you really surprised that they were jailed and is this still a non-peaceful, non-disruptive protest? A 12 person jury and a judge disagreed.

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/R-v-Hallam-and-others.pdf

So definitely not an example of them being political prisoners then. The judge even goes so far as saying he agrees with their politics:

As the CACD also made clear in Trowland & Decker, it is no part of a judge's task to comment on the merits or validity of the particular cause that has led to protest offending. But I think I can fairly observe that there is a general consensus, in both scientific and societal terms, than man- made climate change exists, and that action is required to mitigate its effects and risks.

The question is why all 45 who climbed the motorway gantries weren't charged.

 

[bluethrunthru]

another one locked up - work used to take me to Blyth fairly often and it was full of wingnuts like this - dossing about not working in a place that still looked like it did when Thatcher was PM.

Blyth man jailed for TikTok threat to burn down mosques

James Aspin is handed a sentence of 20 months for stirring up religious hatred in the wake of riots.

www.bbc.co.uk