United (A) | PL | Post Match Thread

invisibleandalone said:
I wouldn't want to be in the trenches with some of the posters on here.
You can't blame Pep for the injury crises this season. Nobody seen it coming and once the season starts there is fuck all any manager can do other than juggle with the players who were half fit and those that are fit. We were flying before the injuries kicked in.
Alright we signed some very young talent in the winter, but they are going to need bedding in and get up to speed on our method of play and getting the right balance on the pitch. This is top level football not Sunday morning on Hough End. Don't forget Rodri wasn't showing much in his 1st season, now he's the best player in the world.
Stop being like bratty kids throwing your toys out of the pram.
At present Ake, Akanji, Stones, Walker all missing in defence, Haaland and Rodri not sure of their returns. A machine can't run with parts missing. It's no different for Pep, he's had to bodge teams together each week putting square pegs in round holes. Just when we think the injured players are getting back bit by bit another group get injured.
This is a major problem for most of Europe's successful clubs but is a lot more telling in the Premier League where every game is tough.
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Going to need bedding in and get upto speed?
That’s one problem they are not going to have.
 
jabbar52 said:
I genuinely think we need to get past the ‘injury crisis’. It’s not the reason for our poor season. Recruitment over past 4 years is: we let very good players leave, as well as academy prospects, and signed average players. Kovacic, Nunes, Doku, Phillips, dare I say it Savio and bringing back Gundo. Our recruitment during this time has been beyond the pale.

How many of the players today get into a title winning side? Just 3-4: Dias, Ederson and Marmoush (just about), Joško definitely. The rest are average players.

Simple truth is since the treble every aspect of the club: ticket prices, season tickets, recruitment have all been poor.

There is a direct correlation between this and the number of senior executives who have left City and joined rivals ie we’ve lost talented people who made things happen and not replaced them. Some of our executives have gone on to big jobs with Utd, Southampton, Spurs, Chelsea and Barcelona. These are some of the people who helped Txiki run the footballing operations.
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Bang on mate
 
invisibleandalone said:
I wouldn't want to be in the trenches with some of the posters on here.
You can't blame Pep for the injury crises this season. Nobody seen it coming and once the season starts there is fuck all any manager can do other than juggle with the players who were half fit and those that are fit. We were flying before the injuries kicked in.
Alright we signed some very young talent in the winter, but they are going to need bedding in and get up to speed on our method of play and getting the right balance on the pitch. This is top level football not Sunday morning on Hough End. Don't forget Rodri wasn't showing much in his 1st season, now he's the best player in the world.
Stop being like bratty kids throwing your toys out of the pram.
At present Ake, Akanji, Stones, Walker all missing in defence, Haaland and Rodri not sure of their returns. A machine can't run with parts missing. It's no different for Pep, he's had to bodge teams together each week putting square pegs in round holes. Just when we think the injured players are getting back bit by bit another group get injured.
This is a major problem for most of Europe's successful clubs but is a lot more telling in the Premier League where every game is tough.
Click to expand...
One or two valid points but a bit self righteous at the same time.
 
richards30 said:
Not picking Khusanov, Nico Gonzalez, Savinho and Doku from the start was truly baffling from Pep! Reverted back to type and the old guard, even worse playing them all at the same time!
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I would rather lose playing these lads than the old guard for a draw. At least we would be building for the future. Having said that, pick the young lads you have mentioned, and I think we would could have won.
 
youngbob said:
I'm not really sure where to put this post because it's more of a general feeling I'm about to express, but it is the derby that's made me feel this way, so here it goes.

I have to admit I've been pretty downbeat and sad after the game this evening. Not because of the result (we've seen worse at Old Trafford and a point isn't too bad in the circumstances) and not even because of the performance (I've seen worse in recent memory), but because I realised as soon as the team came out that this might well be it. The big it - the absolute end of the fucking line. For this set of players, absolutely, but somehow for Pep as well. It's hit me all at once - how long Pep's been in charge of City, how lucky we've been to have him this long, how much of my life he's been in Manchester for, how much my life has changed during his tenure with this group of stars, how many times he's fought back and changed his style to keep City dominant and a step ahead of the chasing pack, how many times he's shown that he can learn from his (very few) mistakes in order to keep growing as a manager and leader of men.

But now we're here, potentially staring at the end of it all. Another team selection this season where I just feel crushed as soon as it gets published. Not only by the inadequate, ageing personnel, but by the ominous feeling that Pep can't see the wood for the trees anymore. He's confused me dozens of times while he's been in charge at City, but he's always brought me round to his way of thinking after a time. There's always a moment, either a minute later or a few weeks later, when everything clicks and I realise that Pep has educated me again. He's come up with a new set-up that will sweep all before him and he's shown me a new way of seeing and visualising football. But it's been months now since I've felt that sudden *click* - and this strange persistence with Bernardo, Kovacic, De Bruyne, and Gundogan shows no signs of stopping. After today, I'm honestly heartbroken because we've been here before with Pellegrini, Mancini, Hughes, etc. where, as a fan, you start seeing exactly where the problem is but you don't feel, deep in your heart, that the man in charge has spotted it too.

With Pellegrini, we developed an unbelievably soft centre about 18 months before he was sacked and he did nothing to toughen it up in all that time. With Mancini our attacks were getting narrower and narrower and teams knew they just had to sit tight and force us into tight spaces to frustrate us. With Hughes our expansive style left gaping holes at the back but he presumed Wayne Bridge/Sylvinho would cope just fine with being completely abandoned by their wingers. Every week you'd turn up hoping that they'd spotted the problem and had done something in the week to combat it. Maybe a tweak to the formation, or maybe dropping a couple of players who hadn't been pulling their weight. But they just... didn't. Whenever structural issues have appeared in Pep's teams, he's always figured out a route forward. He has made necessary tweaks, he has changed formations, and he has dropped or sold certain players. But since before Christmas he's just... stopped doing those things. The intensity, pace, and discipline have vanished from our game, but he's seemingly made no attempt to bring them back. Right now, I just don't see where that next forward move is going to come from and it's honestly breaking my heart that this might well be the thing that brings about his end.

I desperately want Pep to turn this around. I love him so much and he's earned the right to get things right again. But it's getting to the point where, even now, I honestly don't know if Kovacic, Bernardo, and Gundogan will be sold (or loaned out) at all this summer. None of them are out of contract and Pep seemingly still trusts them all to start in big games, so why would he? For years now I've always been happy with the feeling that Pep knows best. But I just... don't feel that right now, and truthfully I haven't felt it for months. The decisions he's making from game to game are baffling, his management of games from moment to moment is depressing, the calls he's made in the transfer market in very recent years have been unusual to say the least, and I honestly don't think I could name a player who has improved under his tutelage since we won the treble. If you were to ask me now, hand on heart, how I think the last two years of Pep's contract are going to go, I really don't think I could call it. Usually I'd be confident of us finishing 2nd/3rd in 2026 and then winning one last title in 2027 before he heads off into the sunset, but I just... don't trust him to do what's best for the team right now.

I'll repeat what I said before the game. Pep's told De Bruyne this week that he'll no longer be required in six weeks but we've started him in an Old Trafford derby; Grealish scored and got MOTM in midweek but he was rewarded with a place on the bench today; O'Reilly couldn't get a look-in 10 days ago and now he's starting at LB in a Manchester derby; Khusanov has been in basically every first XI since he signed but has randomly been dropped out of nowhere; we spent £50m on Gonzalez eight weeks ago and he's been dropped already for no obvious reason; Kovacic missed the last few games but was suddenly thrown back in today; McAtee was told to stay at City in January but has played about 20 minutes of football since then; Savinho is our most creative winger this season but has suddenly been left out of games he'd suit; Pep's acknowledged that Foden's not at the races this season but has started him in a massive game again; we couldn't promise Gundogan a two-year deal in 2023 but here we are two years later playing him three times in a week when he's just shy of his 35th birthday.

None of it makes sense and I just cannot see what Pep is trying to do anymore. I haven't been able to see what he's trying to do for months now. There's part of me imagining that, on the first day of next season, Bernardo, Gundogan, and Kovacic will all be playing for different teams and he'll still try to name them in the starting line-up. Given what he's achieved with us and given the unbelievable heights he's taken us to, he deserves unending goodwill and a full season with a new squad to bring this back around. But if City were to approach Simone Inzaghi this summer and offer him £300m to build a new team, I would completely understand and I would feel like it was the right decision. And that thought honestly breaks my heart because Pep is my favourite City manager of all time and he's helped me understand and look at football in ways I never thought would be possible. Him leaving Manchester without me ever getting to shake his hand and say thank you for everything he's given us since 2016 would upset me so much. But I just don't see where this goes unless he concedes to Viana and Txiki in the summer and allows his old boys to be forcibly removed from his grasp. I cannot imagine City without Pep but it feels closer than it ever has, and fucking hell that hurts.
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Mate that’s exactly how I see it and it’s heartbreaking to watch the great man get it wrong so many times.
I’ve tried to look through his eyes and see what he sees and the only things I can come up with is either he’s been told the results of the 115 and it’s bad news so anything he does the rest of this season means fuckall or he has actually lost the plot and isn’t capable to play any other way.
Of course there maybe a third reason we can’t fathom but which ever way you look at it that team selection today made my heart sink in that horrible is this really the end type of feeling.
Sure I’ll get knee jerk replies to this and I hope to fuck I’m wrong but the fact 95 percent of this thread alone is hinting at this
Plus pep’s body language or lack of during the game made me feel like the clocks ticking.
 
I rarely post in this thread because I am not watching the game either on the box or live. But when I logged onto the City web site and saw the team that Pep had selected, I was disappointed and my reaction was "He doesn't want to lose, where is the attacking threat coming from with such an old midfield and no attacking wingers to support Omar". We didn't lose which is a blessing, but given we knew that Chelsea had dropped points we should have been adventurous and strived for all three points.
 
youngbob said:
I'm not really sure where to put this post because it's more of a general feeling I'm about to express, but it is the derby that's made me feel this way, so here it goes.

I have to admit I've been pretty downbeat and sad after the game this evening. Not because of the result (we've seen worse at Old Trafford and a point isn't too bad in the circumstances) and not even because of the performance (I've seen worse in recent memory), but because I realised as soon as the team came out that this might well be it. The big it - the absolute end of the fucking line. For this set of players, absolutely, but somehow for Pep as well. It's hit me all at once - how long Pep's been in charge of City, how lucky we've been to have him this long, how much of my life he's been in Manchester for, how much my life has changed during his tenure with this group of stars, how many times he's fought back and changed his style to keep City dominant and a step ahead of the chasing pack, how many times he's shown that he can learn from his (very few) mistakes in order to keep growing as a manager and leader of men.

But now we're here, potentially staring at the end of it all. Another team selection this season where I just feel crushed as soon as it gets published. Not only by the inadequate, ageing personnel, but by the ominous feeling that Pep can't see the wood for the trees anymore. He's confused me dozens of times while he's been in charge at City, but he's always brought me round to his way of thinking after a time. There's always a moment, either a minute later or a few weeks later, when everything clicks and I realise that Pep has educated me again. He's come up with a new set-up that will sweep all before him and he's shown me a new way of seeing and visualising football. But it's been months now since I've felt that sudden *click* - and this strange persistence with Bernardo, Kovacic, De Bruyne, and Gundogan shows no signs of stopping. After today, I'm honestly heartbroken because we've been here before with Pellegrini, Mancini, Hughes, etc. where, as a fan, you start seeing exactly where the problem is but you don't feel, deep in your heart, that the man in charge has spotted it too.

With Pellegrini, we developed an unbelievably soft centre about 18 months before he was sacked and he did nothing to toughen it up in all that time. With Mancini our attacks were getting narrower and narrower and teams knew they just had to sit tight and force us into tight spaces to frustrate us. With Hughes our expansive style left gaping holes at the back but he presumed Wayne Bridge/Sylvinho would cope just fine with being completely abandoned by their wingers. Every week you'd turn up hoping that they'd spotted the problem and had done something in the week to combat it. Maybe a tweak to the formation, or maybe dropping a couple of players who hadn't been pulling their weight. But they just... didn't. Whenever structural issues have appeared in Pep's teams, he's always figured out a route forward. He has made necessary tweaks, he has changed formations, and he has dropped or sold certain players. But since before Christmas he's just... stopped doing those things. The intensity, pace, and discipline have vanished from our game, but he's seemingly made no attempt to bring them back. Right now, I just don't see where that next forward move is going to come from and it's honestly breaking my heart that this might well be the thing that brings about his end.

I desperately want Pep to turn this around. I love him so much and he's earned the right to get things right again. But it's getting to the point where, even now, I honestly don't know if Kovacic, Bernardo, and Gundogan will be sold (or loaned out) at all this summer. None of them are out of contract and Pep seemingly still trusts them all to start in big games, so why would he? For years now I've always been happy with the feeling that Pep knows best. But I just... don't feel that right now, and truthfully I haven't felt it for months. The decisions he's making from game to game are baffling, his management of games from moment to moment is depressing, the calls he's made in the transfer market in very recent years have been unusual to say the least, and I honestly don't think I could name a player who has improved under his tutelage since we won the treble. If you were to ask me now, hand on heart, how I think the last two years of Pep's contract are going to go, I really don't think I could call it. Usually I'd be confident of us finishing 2nd/3rd in 2026 and then winning one last title in 2027 before he heads off into the sunset, but I just... don't trust him to do what's best for the team right now.

I'll repeat what I said before the game. Pep's told De Bruyne this week that he'll no longer be required in six weeks but we've started him in an Old Trafford derby; Grealish scored and got MOTM in midweek but he was rewarded with a place on the bench today; O'Reilly couldn't get a look-in 10 days ago and now he's starting at LB in a Manchester derby; Khusanov has been in basically every first XI since he signed but has randomly been dropped out of nowhere; we spent £50m on Gonzalez eight weeks ago and he's been dropped already for no obvious reason; Kovacic missed the last few games but was suddenly thrown back in today; McAtee was told to stay at City in January but has played about 20 minutes of football since then; Savinho is our most creative winger this season but has suddenly been left out of games he'd suit; Pep's acknowledged that Foden's not at the races this season but has started him in a massive game again; we couldn't promise Gundogan a two-year deal in 2023 but here we are two years later playing him three times in a week when he's just shy of his 35th birthday.

None of it makes sense and I just cannot see what Pep is trying to do anymore. I haven't been able to see what he's trying to do for months now. There's part of me imagining that, on the first day of next season, Bernardo, Gundogan, and Kovacic will all be playing for different teams and he'll still try to name them in the starting line-up. Given what he's achieved with us and given the unbelievable heights he's taken us to, he deserves unending goodwill and a full season with a new squad to bring this back around. But if City were to approach Simone Inzaghi this summer and offer him £300m to build a new team, I would completely understand and I would feel like it was the right decision. And that thought honestly breaks my heart because Pep is my favourite City manager of all time and he's helped me understand and look at football in ways I never thought would be possible. Him leaving Manchester without me ever getting to shake his hand and say thank you for everything he's given us since 2016 would upset me so much. But I just don't see where this goes unless he concedes to Viana and Txiki in the summer and allows his old boys to be forcibly removed from his grasp. I cannot imagine City without Pep but it feels closer than it ever has, and fucking hell that hurts.
Click to expand...
A very well written post.
 
youngbob said:
I'm not really sure where to put this post because it's more of a general feeling I'm about to express, but it is the derby that's made me feel this way, so here it goes.

I have to admit I've been pretty downbeat and sad after the game this evening. Not because of the result (we've seen worse at Old Trafford and a point isn't too bad in the circumstances) and not even because of the performance (I've seen worse in recent memory), but because I realised as soon as the team came out that this might well be it. The big it - the absolute end of the fucking line. For this set of players, absolutely, but somehow for Pep as well. It's hit me all at once - how long Pep's been in charge of City, how lucky we've been to have him this long, how much of my life he's been in Manchester for, how much my life has changed during his tenure with this group of stars, how many times he's fought back and changed his style to keep City dominant and a step ahead of the chasing pack, how many times he's shown that he can learn from his (very few) mistakes in order to keep growing as a manager and leader of men.

But now we're here, potentially staring at the end of it all. Another team selection this season where I just feel crushed as soon as it gets published. Not only by the inadequate, ageing personnel, but by the ominous feeling that Pep can't see the wood for the trees anymore. He's confused me dozens of times while he's been in charge at City, but he's always brought me round to his way of thinking after a time. There's always a moment, either a minute later or a few weeks later, when everything clicks and I realise that Pep has educated me again. He's come up with a new set-up that will sweep all before him and he's shown me a new way of seeing and visualising football. But it's been months now since I've felt that sudden *click* - and this strange persistence with Bernardo, Kovacic, De Bruyne, and Gundogan shows no signs of stopping. After today, I'm honestly heartbroken because we've been here before with Pellegrini, Mancini, Hughes, etc. where, as a fan, you start seeing exactly where the problem is but you don't feel, deep in your heart, that the man in charge has spotted it too.

With Pellegrini, we developed an unbelievably soft centre about 18 months before he was sacked and he did nothing to toughen it up in all that time. With Mancini our attacks were getting narrower and narrower and teams knew they just had to sit tight and force us into tight spaces to frustrate us. With Hughes our expansive style left gaping holes at the back but he presumed Wayne Bridge/Sylvinho would cope just fine with being completely abandoned by their wingers. Every week you'd turn up hoping that they'd spotted the problem and had done something in the week to combat it. Maybe a tweak to the formation, or maybe dropping a couple of players who hadn't been pulling their weight. But they just... didn't. Whenever structural issues have appeared in Pep's teams, he's always figured out a route forward. He has made necessary tweaks, he has changed formations, and he has dropped or sold certain players. But since before Christmas he's just... stopped doing those things. The intensity, pace, and discipline have vanished from our game, but he's seemingly made no attempt to bring them back. Right now, I just don't see where that next forward move is going to come from and it's honestly breaking my heart that this might well be the thing that brings about his end.

I desperately want Pep to turn this around. I love him so much and he's earned the right to get things right again. But it's getting to the point where, even now, I honestly don't know if Kovacic, Bernardo, and Gundogan will be sold (or loaned out) at all this summer. None of them are out of contract and Pep seemingly still trusts them all to start in big games, so why would he? For years now I've always been happy with the feeling that Pep knows best. But I just... don't feel that right now, and truthfully I haven't felt it for months. The decisions he's making from game to game are baffling, his management of games from moment to moment is depressing, the calls he's made in the transfer market in very recent years have been unusual to say the least, and I honestly don't think I could name a player who has improved under his tutelage since we won the treble. If you were to ask me now, hand on heart, how I think the last two years of Pep's contract are going to go, I really don't think I could call it. Usually I'd be confident of us finishing 2nd/3rd in 2026 and then winning one last title in 2027 before he heads off into the sunset, but I just... don't trust him to do what's best for the team right now.

I'll repeat what I said before the game. Pep's told De Bruyne this week that he'll no longer be required in six weeks but we've started him in an Old Trafford derby; Grealish scored and got MOTM in midweek but he was rewarded with a place on the bench today; O'Reilly couldn't get a look-in 10 days ago and now he's starting at LB in a Manchester derby; Khusanov has been in basically every first XI since he signed but has randomly been dropped out of nowhere; we spent £50m on Gonzalez eight weeks ago and he's been dropped already for no obvious reason; Kovacic missed the last few games but was suddenly thrown back in today; McAtee was told to stay at City in January but has played about 20 minutes of football since then; Savinho is our most creative winger this season but has suddenly been left out of games he'd suit; Pep's acknowledged that Foden's not at the races this season but has started him in a massive game again; we couldn't promise Gundogan a two-year deal in 2023 but here we are two years later playing him three times in a week when he's just shy of his 35th birthday.

None of it makes sense and I just cannot see what Pep is trying to do anymore. I haven't been able to see what he's trying to do for months now. There's part of me imagining that, on the first day of next season, Bernardo, Gundogan, and Kovacic will all be playing for different teams and he'll still try to name them in the starting line-up. Given what he's achieved with us and given the unbelievable heights he's taken us to, he deserves unending goodwill and a full season with a new squad to bring this back around. But if City were to approach Simone Inzaghi this summer and offer him £300m to build a new team, I would completely understand and I would feel like it was the right decision. And that thought honestly breaks my heart because Pep is my favourite City manager of all time and he's helped me understand and look at football in ways I never thought would be possible. Him leaving Manchester without me ever getting to shake his hand and say thank you for everything he's given us since 2016 would upset me so much. But I just don't see where this goes unless he concedes to Viana and Txiki in the summer and allows his old boys to be forcibly removed from his grasp. I cannot imagine City without Pep but it feels closer than it ever has, and fucking hell that hurts.
Click to expand...
That's a lot of words to say Pep out
 
Congratulations to United's ground staff, getting eleven buses on and off the pitch without damaging the surface is quite a feat, however, it must be noted that they have had plenty of practice under this manager
 
TonyM said:
That's the piece that worries me. Without solving some of our dilemmas this season we go into the summer and next season in a bigger state of experimentation. So in that case we probably have to write off next season too.
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and that leads to more problems as peps time is near up at the end of that season and things start again if a new manager comes in
 
fathellensbellend said:
No balance, no width, no pace, square pegs in round holes and a midfield where the slightest miss placed pass was enough to lose it, horrific
Click to expand...

Writing was on the wall from the start, a midfield 4 with the youngest being 30 doesn't suggest a high tempo game is about to start does it :/. I did however think one of the square pegs (Nunes) was our best player by a distance
 
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