United thread 2013/14

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David Moyes is being haunted by Sir Alex Ferguson at Manchester United. Illustration: Cameron Law for the Guardian
David Moyes is an internet meme. Apparently his stock has sunk so low that assorted wags on the web are now bracketing the Manchester United manager alongside videos of buffoons planking or doing the Harlem Shake, or funny pictures of cats that bear a passing resemblance to Gary Barlow. It is the latest indignity to be visited upon Moyes, who may be one bad result away from turning up to training having forgotten his trousers while wearing odd socks. You can be sure that never happened to Sir Alex Ferguson.

Poor Moyes. Once described in hushed tones as The Chosen One – which is unfortunate, because we all know the real Chosen One was Buffy the Vampire Slayer – he is now being lampooned as The Chastened One after eight months in the job. The impossible dream has turned into a nightmare of epic proportions.

Yet it is too easy merely to blame Moyes. It takes more than one man to bring down the biggest club in the world, no matter how out of his depth he is. The Glazers are close to never having to buy a round in Merseyside again. There was Ed Woodward's bungling in the transfer market. And in the past week some observers have even started to question Ferguson's role in this shambles – and not just because he left behind a squad of deteriorating quality.

For many Ferguson's greatest faux pas appears to be the inexcusable crime of going to watch United play, thereby heaping more pressure on Moyes. In the week when Thomas Hitzlsperger became the most high-profile footballer to come out and Fifa suit Jérôme Valcke declared that the 2022 World Cup will be played in a Qatari winter wonderland, a man attending a football match does not necessarily seem like news.

But Ferguson is not a normal man. He is Ferguson. Fergie. Suralex. He is a knight of the realm, which means he can legally kill you for looking at him funny. Above all, he had Moyes' job for 26 years, during which he won a fair few trophies, so it cannot be easy for the new man to have Ferguson gazing down at him from the directors' box every week, wondering what the hell Marouane Fellaini is supposed to be.

Perhaps that is why Moyes is increasingly wearing the haunted look of a man who was promised Mila Kunis's hand in marriage only to lift the veil and find Tom Cleverley staring back at him. No amount of earnest shuffling, sideways passing and expert brand marketing can make up for the disappointment.

It is said, with considerable force in some quarters, that Ferguson should think about staying away, that he is a hindrance and that he has failed to learn from how Sir Matt Busby's successors, Wilf McGuinness and Frank O'Farrell, were intimidated by his continued presence at the club after his retirement in 1969. In that sense Ferguson is repeating the mistakes of the past; then again Ferguson welcomed Busby's guidance in his early days at the club.

The problem is Ferguson does not look like going anywhere and, unless United demand he turns up in disguise, complete with comedy glasses, nose and moustache, Moyes had better get used to him. Who are we to tell Ferguson, who built the modern United, not to watch them play?

That, in the end, is all he is doing: watching. It is hardly like the Harry Enfield character Mr You-Don't-Wanna-Do-It-Like-That jumping into the dressing room before matches, shouting "Only Me!" and taking Moyes' team-talks.

Yet given the way the coverage is heading, one could be forgiven for thinking the club should ask the Sir Alex Ferguson Stand to find another place to be every other Saturday, that Moyes cannot buy a packet of chewing gum without having a nervous breakdown and that Ferguson is busy watching him wherever he goes, to the point where the only thing Moyes can see or hear is Ferguson. What shall we have for dinner, David? Ferguson. What film shall we see tonight, David? Ferguson. What shall we Ferguson for Ferguson, Ferguson? Ferguson.

Much more of this and rumours will start to spread about Ferguson sitting by an unsuspecting Moyes while he sleeps or bursting into his bedroom at five o'clock in the morning, banging pots and pans and shouting that he was already at the training ground at this time when he was the manager. One last mind game.

Yet while people think they are looking out for Moyes, they might be doing him a disservice, for this all feeds the perception that he is not up to the job. There has been no indication from Moyes that he is unsettled by Ferguson and it would hardly speak highly of his character if he is but it is difficult to imagine anyone wondering if this would be an issue for José Mourinho. Mourinho, it is safe to say, would deal with it by standing on the touchline at Old Trafford completely in the nude, two glistening Portuguese buttocks leaving no one in any doubt about who's boss now.

There could be something in that for Moyes, though. Anyone who has ever had to appear on stage has been told to imagine their audience naked to settle the nerves and while that is why I'm banned from public speaking, it is a solution United should consider: if Moyes just pictures Ferguson naked, then everything will return to normal and Ferguson can keep going to games without a care in the world.
 
I've spent many a happy hour on Red Cafe over the past few weeks and my word how I have laughed. Comedy Gold doesn't describe it, it is simply priceless.

But nothing got me more than what I just read:

I think someone like Ian Holloway is crying out to come into Old Trafford and sort the club out from top to bottom. We have too many yes men about the place.

BwwwwwwaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahHhhhhaaahaha.

Ian Holloway to take over at the swamp. I'd pay big money to see that.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Hamann Pineapple said:
erast fandorin said:
was told on Wednesday that Van Persie filled Phil Neville in during training and basically wants fuck all to do with any of them?

This season is like one long episode of Fawlty Towers
I'm not sure about that. There were moments in Fawlty Towers that weren't that funny.

Whack a sign up before the next rags home game saying "Flowery Twats"
 
bluemike said:
erast fandorin said:
Just watched Moyes on SSN,think his next job will be a leading role in one of these trendy vampire series that are on as he appears to have no blood in his face at all,was told on Wednesday that Van Persie filled Phil Neville in during training and basically wants fuck all to do with any of them?
Please be reported in the press tomorrow.
Hope van Pussy hasn't spoled young Chuckles looks.
Let's face it van Persie could have done phil chuckle in with a baseball bat in training and the rag arse licking press still wouldn't report it pal
 
Stortz said:
bluemike said:
erast fandorin said:
Just watched Moyes on SSN,think his next job will be a leading role in one of these trendy vampire series that are on as he appears to have no blood in his face at all,was told on Wednesday that Van Persie filled Phil Neville in during training and basically wants fuck all to do with any of them?
Please be reported in the press tomorrow.
Hope van Pussy hasn't spoled young Chuckles looks.
Let's face it van Persie could have done phil chuckle in with a baseball bat in training and the rag arse licking press still wouldn't report it pal

i think you underestimate a journalist when he smells a scoop
 
this reads like the kiss of death, a bit like the dreaded vote of confidence in the manager, why does he need to say this?

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-united-players-not-against-6496806" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... st-6496806</a>

Darren Fletcher insists United’s squad are buying into manager David Moyes’ plan for a new-look Reds – and he dismisses rumours that there is mutiny brewing in the Old Trafford camp.

The champions’ fall from grace in the Premier League title race, FA Cup exit and Capital One semi-final first-leg defeat at Sunderland has opened a can of worms at Old Trafford with reports of disenchantment in the dressing room.

But a decade ago the knives were similarly out for Sir Alex Ferguson with question marks over United’s future as a dominant power.

In 2004-05 midfielder Fletcher was into his second term as a fully-fledged United senior but ended the campaign without a trophy. The Reds had been deposed as champions by Arsenal the season previous in 2003-04 and followed that up empty-handed.
 
Matt Lawton in The Mail. At first this looked like it was going to be a hatchet job but it seems to be preparing the ground for a Moyes stay and a clear-out of under-performers. Good news.

When David Moyes took charge at Manchester United, Rene Meulensteen — then the first-team coach — told him he had moved from a yacht to the bridge of a cruise liner.

Now that ship appears to be hurtling towards the rocks with the former Everton manager struggling to steer it clear of danger.

A side who won last season’s title at something of a stroll are suddenly unable to keep pace with their rivals and much of the blame is being laid at the door of Moyes. The Chosen One has become the chastened one since leaving the relative comfort of Goodison Park to replace the seemingly irreplaceable Sir Alex Ferguson.

Sportsmail has spent the past week talking to central figures in this unfolding drama in an effort to establish what exactly has gone wrong at United, the club who have dominated English football in the Premier League era. How did it get to the point that defeat in this evening’s encounter with Swansea would come as no great surprise to anyone?

A picture emerges of a divided dressing room, a squad with some senior players who seem to have ‘retired when the manager retired’ and a group of players disaffected by Moyes’s apparent indulgence of Wayne Rooney.

Confidence is shot at a club renowned for their flair and never-say-die spirit. That spirit has been crushed. Never was it more apparent than in United’s pathetic reaction after Emmanuel Adebayor’s goal for Tottenham on January 1. But amid the swirl of speculation and gossip that has swept across Old Trafford, some of the accusations levelled at Moyes are simply wrong.

He did not stroll into the Carrington training complex and fire Ferguson’s entire coaching staff. He sat down with all of them individually, more than once, and offered Meulensteen the assistant manager’s position that had belonged to Mike Phelan for the previous five years. Promotion, essentially, for the Dutchman.

But Meulensteen didn’t like the idea of Moyes being more hands-on than Ferguson and decided, instead, to pursue his ambitions in management. Even though Ferguson was of the opinion, in his recent autobiography, that of all his assistants only Steve McClaren was really cut out for the top job.

Moyes wanted to bring his people in but Steve Round became No 2 only after Meulensteen (now in charge at Fulham) opted to leave. To suggest — as some have this week — that the new manager ‘broke up the family’ would appear to be a one-eyed view of events. There are, however, deep concerns within the dressing room, some of which Moyes might even acknowledge.

There is a feeling among key figures that some older players have been unable to accept change. The majority of footballers find it easier to adapt. They move clubs, see managers come and go. But Moyes has inherited a squad that has been together for a long time in an unusually stable environment. Of the 31 members of the senior squad, 18 have been at the club for more than three years; 14 of those more than five.

Ferguson’s departure was seen by some not simply as the end of an era but the end of their careers, and the sudden drop in performance levels has reflected that. As one senior source said, there is a view that influential players effectively retired when Ferguson quit. Clearly, some of the older players are not the force they were. Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic can no longer command a penalty area in the manner they once did and Ferguson’s exit seems to have hastened their decline. Ferdinand, 35, increased the pressure on Moyes last month when he bemoaned his habit of announcing his match-day team at the last minute.

Ferdinand complained it had turned him into ‘a madman’, saying: ‘You spend a lot of nervous energy thinking, “Am I playing?” or “Am I not playing?” and you’re just going round in circles in your head.’ Would he have dared challenge the authority of Ferguson in such a way, particularly when, back at Old Trafford, his words were felt to be more than a little misleading. When Ferdinand was a central figure at United, Ferguson would give him advanced warning that he wanted him fit and prepared for a particular game.

If the Manchester derby was two weeks away, Ferguson would let Ferdinand know he was in his plans. That way the former England captain would manage his chronic injury problems and get his creaking body ready. The idea that Moyes leaves the players sweating until two hours before the game is incorrect. The majority of the time, players will be told the day before. Perhaps Ferdinand is wrestling with the fact he just isn’t someone Moyes has in mind for the big games these days. Not when Moyes is of the view Phil Jones and Chris Smalling have the potential to become the finest centre halves in the Premier League.

Rooney is already central to his manager’s plans even if Chelsea’s Jose Mourinho is sure to come calling again, on this occasion possibly offering the Champions League football that might not be available at Old Trafford next season. Some players feel Moyes went overboard in his praise of Rooney earlier this season. Moyes might argue he needed to give his attention to Rooney after the England striker had told Ferguson he wanted to leave. He might also point to how successful his management of Rooney has proved.

In the mind of some players, however, Ferguson had been more than justified in isolating Rooney as in recent seasons Ferguson had been forced to reprimand Rooney. In his new autobiography he confirmed that disciplinary action was taken in 2011 after Rooney and two team-mates turned up to training worse for wear after a night out. Ferguson also wrote of how Rooney struggled to stay in peak condition and confirmed that he had indeed asked to leave in the summer — having also done so back in 2010 when he publicly questioned the club’s ambition.

The change in attitude towards Rooney between the two managers has not sat comfortably with all of United’s players. There are some who believe Ferguson’s ruling of Rooney with an iron fist was the correct approach.
Others are operating on a baser emotion, resentful of the special attention — and playing time — Rooney is getting.

Some sources claim Robin van Persie feels particularly aggrieved. Senior insiders at the club deny that. Instead, they insist that Van Persie’s bond with the new boss is a strong one, however upset the Dutch striker might have been to see Ferguson go only a year after he joined from Arsenal.

‘There hasn’t been so much as a sideways glance at David from Robin,’ a source said. The resentment is thought, instead, to come from players who might have benefited from Rooney’s time in the wilderness. The biggest issue with Van Persie is his absence with a thigh injury that United fear could keep him out for another six weeks.

Moyes knows there are areas of the team that need addressing, not least in midfield where there are no serious rivals to a 40-year-old Ryan Giggs; a serious indictment of the squad he inherited, and one that also highlights Marouane Fellaini’s failure to make an impact.

But right now the main deficiency in the eyes of the coaching staff is a lack of creativity around the box and, with Rooney absent with injury too, an inability to kill off opponents. In their recent defeat by Tottenham they had three times as many crosses as their visitors but were unable to convert. Spurs scored twice from theirs.

With transfer targets unavailable in this transfer window, senior figures at United are bracing themselves for a second half of the season every bit as difficult as the first. In A chilling message to United fans, one source conceded it could get worse before it gets better.

Whatever criticisms have been levelled at Moyes, he can’t be attacked for a lack of effort. Since starting work on July 1 last year, he has taken only two days off. He is working tirelessly to revive a fractured and demoralised squad.

It can’t be easy knowing that supporters would give anything to see Ferguson back in charge but some of Moyes’s time has been devoted to tapping into Ferguson’s expertise. The pair meet regularly, they might talk twice in a week or three weeks can pass without a conversation. Sources who know Moyes well say that at no time has he thought it would be easier for him if his predecessor took himself off to New York for an extended holiday. Moyes sees Ferguson only as a positive presence.

The same, however, cannot be said of certain players. Some players are with Moyes, and some of the most senior members of the dressing room report that his training sessions are excellent. But some, Moyes is said to realise, are not as eager to come along for the ride. They need to go. They need to make way for the new players the Scot will endeavour to bring in this summer.

Until then Moyes knows he must work with what he has, and continue steering the cruise liner through some very choppy waters.
 
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