United were nothing before Matt Busby! Busby went to United in 1945, 76 years ago; but the league had been going for 57 years and the FA Cup for 74 years before that, and as you say some clubs were formed 80+ years before that. So for half of football history (plus the 1970s) United have been a non-entity of a club. How the fuck can they be considered the Grandfathers of English football?
As Newton Heath they were getting crowds of 400 at Bank Street and went bust. As Manchester United they won their first ever trophies with City’s players, then went 37 years without winning anything. They were getting average attendances of 11,000, individual attendances of 4,000, couldn’t afford to buy their own kits so used old City kits (Rags), and nearly went bust in the 1930s.
The grandfathers of English football are:
Aston Villa - 6 league titles and 6 FA Cups by 1920.
Sunderland - 6 league titles and an FA Cup by 1936.
Everton - 5 league titles and 2 FA Cups by 1939.
Newcastle - 4 league titles and 3 FA Cups by 1932.
Sheffield Wednesday - 4 league titles and 3 FA Cups by 1935.
Blackburn Rovers - 2 league titles and 6 FA Cups by 1928.
Preston North End - 2 league titles and 2 FA Cups by 1938, first ever Double Winners (1888-89) in a season they went unbeaten in the league (first ever Invincibles) and didn’t concede a goal in the FA Cup.
In the decade United were almost going bust, other clubs were huge in comparison:
Arsenal were winning 5 league titles and 2 FA cups.
Everton were winning 3 league titles and an FA Cup.
City were winning the league title, the FA Cup, playing the first ever “European” fixture (against a German league XI in Germany), were getting regular 60-70,000 attendances as well as the record breaking 84,569 attendance in 1934.
West Brom were getting 64,000+ crowds.
Birmingham were getting 66,000+ crowds.
Huddersfield (after winning 3 consecutive league titles the previous decade) were getting 67,000+ crowds.
Sheffield United were getting 68,000+ crowds.
Newcastle were getting 68,000+ crowds.
Bolton were getting 69,000+ crowds.
Sheffield Wednesday were getting 72,000+ crowds (against City) and winning trophies.
Sunderland were getting 72,000+ crowds and winning trophies.
Charlton were challenging [City] for the league title and getting 75,000+ crowds.
Chelsea were getting 82,000+ crowds.
I’ve named 16 clubs there, and not exhausted the list, who have more legitimacy of calling themselves bigger clubs than United in the first half of football history.
Man United “the Grandfathers of English football”, my arse!