University Liberal Arts Courses in Big Trouble

[johnny crossan]

Just been in conversation with two friends with senior university posts and things are looking black here and in the USA - one referenced this article
"A university facing a multi-million pound deficit is to shed 170 full-time equivalent posts as it tries to save £11m.

University of East Anglia (UEA) Vice-Chancellor, Prof David Maguire, said he was "deeply sorry" to have taken the decision

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxr29pprqeo

and the other, who is due to retire next year as Professor of International Relations in Minnesota commented -

Liberal Arts at UMD is shrinking too. Half the student enrolment in our classes, a third of the faculty trying to teach remote, and empty halls and offices. Let’s hope no one notices for a year.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Universities are fucked. Tuition fees were tripled in 2012 to a maximum of £9000, which they all immediately took advantage of. But it's worth mentioning that this didn't mean that universities got triple the budget, it just took over from money the government was previously paying out. Since then, they didn't go up for 12 years until increasing to £9,250 last year and £9535 from next year. So in 12 years, they've been allowed a 2.7% increase in fees, and now they're getting thrown another paltry bone, at the same time that literally all of their costs have skyrocketed. Staffing, utilities, etc, have all gone up every year for 12 years. If tuition fees were allowed to rise with inflation, they would currently be £12,650.

So what have they done instead? Brought shitloads of international student in, who pay double the fees, and we're basically using them to subsidise the education of our own kids. Except that everyone is now complaining about that too, because naturally that means high levels of immigration, which causes pressure or cheap housing.

The whole thing has been caused by a succession of cowardly governments, who would rather kick university funding into the long grass rather than either admit that fewer people can go, or prioritise enough money to properly fund people who are capable of going. Let's be honest, they're still funding most university courses, they're just making sure the bill doesn't come in until they're long-retired.

 

[KS55]

Universities are fucked. Tuition fees were tripled in 2012 to a maximum of £9000, which they all immediately took advantage of. But it's worth mentioning that this didn't mean that universities got triple the budget, it just took over from money the government was previously paying out. Since then, they didn't go up for 12 years until increasing to £9,250 last year and £9535 from next year. So in 12 years, they've been allowed a 2.7% increase in fees, and now they're getting thrown another paltry bone, at the same time that literally all of their costs have skyrocketed. Staffing, utilities, etc, have all gone up every year for 12 years. If tuition fees were allowed to rise with inflation, they would currently be £12,650.

So what have they done instead? Brought shitloads of international student in, who pay double the fees, and we're basically using them to subsidise the education of our own kids. Except that everyone is now complaining about that too, because naturally that means high levels of immigration, which causes pressure or cheap housing.

The whole thing has been caused by a succession of cowardly governments, who would rather kick university funding into the long grass rather than either admit that fewer people can go, or prioritise enough money to properly fund people who are capable of going. Let's be honest, they're still funding most university courses, they're just making sure the bill doesn't come in until they're long-retired.

With long term problems, neglect is the standard response of all our govs. This is why we need a new House of Lords with responsibility to report on them regularly and for the gov to be required to answer the reports in the commons. But but but, the commons will never cede powers so it won’t happen.
See pensions, energy security, nhs management structure, gov IT failures, housing et al.

 

[Really_here]

Universities are fucked. Tuition fees were tripled in 2012 to a maximum of £9000, which they all immediately took advantage of. But it's worth mentioning that this didn't mean that universities got triple the budget, it just took over from money the government was previously paying out. Since then, they didn't go up for 12 years until increasing to £9,250 last year and £9535 from next year. So in 12 years, they've been allowed a 2.7% increase in fees, and now they're getting thrown another paltry bone, at the same time that literally all of their costs have skyrocketed. Staffing, utilities, etc, have all gone up every year for 12 years. If tuition fees were allowed to rise with inflation, they would currently be £12,650.

So what have they done instead? Brought shitloads of international student in, who pay double the fees, and we're basically using them to subsidise the education of our own kids. Except that everyone is now complaining about that too, because naturally that means high levels of immigration, which causes pressure or cheap housing.

The whole thing has been caused by a succession of cowardly governments, who would rather kick university funding into the long grass rather than either admit that fewer people can go, or prioritise enough money to properly fund people who are capable of going. Let's be honest, they're still funding most university courses, they're just making sure the bill doesn't come in until they're long-retired.

I think the answer is fewer people going and make it what it used to be with much tougher entrance criteria. Both my sons went to Uni, the experience of the big wide world was good for them but the only other thing they came out with was debt. They should be wholly funded by the government and aimed at fostering the best (as they were when a lot of our current politicians went).

 

[KS55]

I think the answer is fewer people going and make it what it used to be with much tougher entrance criteria. Both my sons went to Uni, the experience of the big wide world was good for them but the only other thing they came out with was debt. They should be wholly funded by the government and aimed at fostering the best (as they were when a lot of our current politicians went).

My daughter went to MU (we lived in Leeds at the time) and enjoyed it, did well, and has just paid her debt off. She is 38. Make of that what you will.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

I think the answer is fewer people going and make it what it used to be with much tougher entrance criteria. Both my sons went to Uni, the experience of the big wide world was good for them but the only other thing they came out with was debt. They should be wholly funded by the government and aimed at fostering the best (as they were when a lot of our current politicians went).

I don't think you're doing your argument a favour with that example.

But the UK doesn't have unusual levels of higher education compared to other developed countries, including those that manage to fully fund all of their students.

You do have to ask why universities in somewhere like Germany are able to provide the equivalent education for a much cheaper price. International students at the Technical Institute of Munich (supposedly their best ranked uni) pay €3000 per semester, so €6000 per year. Our unis are charging international students over £20k per year, which is basically four times the price. Are they four times as good? What are they spending that money on that makes it four times the price? (I know a lot of that is subsidizing home students, but even if it wasn't, it'd still be at least twice the price). I can't believe they're just pissing money up the wall after basically a decade of cost cutting. But then you also hear about lecturers not being able to get a full time contract at the same time they're opening a fancy new wing on the geography building.I'd be surprised if staffing costs are more in the UK than Germany. It's worth mentioning that Germany is one country that does have a lower level of university students, but they supplement that with a higher level of people going to things like technical colleges, which would be fine for us if we actually had any manufacturing left.

I know we have a reputation for great universities, and there's a big worry about making them worse. But I'm convinced that these international rankings are basically just biased towards English-speaking institutions, because a huge factor is how widely cited your research is, and so publishing in English gives you a huge advantage. Having said that, I had a Dutch friend who studied in the UK and she said that even in the Netherlands, having a degree from the UK was a big deal.

 

[johnny crossan]

72% of U.K. universities forecast to be running deficits by 2025-26​

Seriously. The list of redundancies and other budget cutting measures at UK universities is already long, and likely to get longer. Note that the list of redundancies includes many leading UK universities outside Oxbridge, and even some of the London colleges. Raising tuition a couple hundred pounds is not a solution. The UK needs some combination of more government funding, higher tuition, and more foreign students or higher education is going to collapse into a shell of its former self.
Posted by Brian Leiter on November 21, 2024 at 10:15 AM in Issues in the Profession, The Academy | Permalink

University cash crisis will get worse despite tuition fee rise, BBC told

More than three quarters of universities are expected to face financial problems next year.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I think the answer is fewer people going and make it what it used to be with much tougher entrance criteria. Both my sons went to Uni, the experience of the big wide world was good for them but the only other thing they came out with was debt. They should be wholly funded by the government and aimed at fostering the best (as they were when a lot of our current politicians went).

Since the 80s university has been used by successive governments as a way of hiding or artificially shrinking youth unemployment. All those tech colleges and polytechnics becoming universities and letting just about anyone in to study just about anything they wanted has led to opportunity and social mobility, but also to devaluation of degrees in the employment market and crippling debts for young people. Not sure what the answer is - it's not like we have a manufacturing or heavy industrial sector as a vocational alternative. Probably call centres or only fans

 

[denislawsbackheel]

One of the most ignorantly uninformed posts ever on here.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

One of the most ignorantly uninformed posts ever on here.

Get over yourself, it's not even one of my most ignorant and uninformed posts!