US & Israel attack Iran

Postman Pep said:
So you think the death of an 86 year old despot moves the dial in terms of regime change?

Sounds like the ramblings of someone hooked on liberal interventionist propaganda to me.
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So you'd....have kept the despot in power, thus keeping the Iranian people, the Iranian women, subjugated and terrified becuase it disagrees with your 'world ideals' and anti-American rhetoric?

LOL
 
Gloating over the death of an enemy leader isn't the flex Trump and Netanyahu thinks it is but they have now succeeded in making themselves targets number 1 and 2 for Iran
 
Metal Biker said:
So you'd....have kept the despot in power, thus keeping the Iranian people, the Iranian women, subjugated and terrified becuase it disagrees with your 'world ideals' and anti-American rhetoric?

LOL
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What you need to realise with these people, is anyone that stands against the West, is an ally. And that means a-n-y-o-n-e.

It was the same with the Bolsheviks, they’d kill your kids to overthrow the system. They’d side with anyone.
 
Metal Biker said:
Given the 60 years of oppression and the millions 'disaapeared' by this despotic regime, for a population that's into Western music, TikTok videos and calls for freedom from oppression?

You tell me. It's easy to say such nonsense when you haven't lived under that oppressive regime, isn't it. My heart and courage goes out to them all, hoping for a swift regime change that brings freedom to all.
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I don’t have the answers to any of the questions in that post you replied to by the way, I genuinely don’t know what an acceptable cost is for democracy, or whether it’s the right thing to do to leave it to Iranians themselves now or try to impose a peaceful transition.

I have very little faith in the decision makers we have involved doing the right thing and I grew up watching us fail in Iraq and Afghanistan so I can’t say I’m optimistic if we go down that path, but they also tried more hands off in Libya and Syria and that’s not gone well either.


I guess there’s potentially a path to a better future for Iranians today that didn’t exist yesterday and that’s a good thing no matter how fraught and unpredictable the route to that future is.
 
Metal Biker said:
So you'd....have kept the despot in power, thus keeping the Iranian people, the Iranian women, subjugated and terrified becuase it disagrees with your 'world ideals' and anti-American rhetoric?

LOL
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Again I'm not the naive fucker buying into the 'world ideals' of liberal interventionism. I mean it's not that difficult.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Gloating over the death of an enemy leader isn't the flex Trump and Netanyahu thinks it is but they have now succeeded in making themselves targets number 1 and 2 for Iran
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They don't have a prayer against the US. Not now the liberation movement in Iran is growing.
Khamenei was 'the glorious leader'. With him gone, his subordinates will try and fill the void. Meanwhile, those seeking freedom from his regimes oppression, will look to his leaderless, headless sycophants in law enforcement, desperate for instruction, receiving none.

This is when the people of Iran, serious abou liberation, must act, and WE must be there to support them.
 
These same posters wanting the Iranian people free are the same ones wanting the Palestinians to be kept in the world's biggest open air prison for the last so many years. I mean these poor bastards have been oppressed by the Israeli's for decades.

You can't make this shit up!
 
bluethrunthru said:
Gloating over the death of an enemy leader isn't the flex Trump and Netanyahu thinks it is but they have now succeeded in making themselves targets number 1 and 2 for Iran
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Gloating over the death of someone who has killed tens of thousands of his own citizens is the right thing to do for any right minded person. If it’s true.
 
Metal Biker said:
So you'd....have kept the despot in power, thus keeping the Iranian people, the Iranian women, subjugated and terrified becuase it disagrees with your 'world ideals' and anti-American rhetoric?

LOL
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Its likely to have little impact on the regime - when fighting an ideology thats what the rest can't get their heads around. The Allies when faced with Nazism had to attack on the ground from all sides and raze the country to the ground and yet Germany still has neo-Nazi's
 
bluethrunthru said:
It’s likely to have little impact on the regime - when fighting an ideology thats what the rest can't get their heads around. The Allies when faced with Nazism had to attack on the ground from all sides and raze the country to the ground and yet Germany still has neo-Nazi's
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You’re right to some degree but the difference is large swathes of the Iranian population have already tried to overthrow the cunts recently, many paying with their lives, to a far far greater degree than happened in Germany in the 40s
 
domalino said:
History shows that democratic revolution is often a very bloody affair and very hard won.

If Iran devolves into a 5 year civil war between the military, the tribes, the democrats and the Islamists and 1 million people die but the end result is a fair democracy is that acceptable?

What if the above happens and the rural folk who supported the Islamic republic win out and the result is another Islamic Republic?

I think we can all agree that Khameni had reached a level of oppression that made democratic revolution or even changing leaders impossible. We saw that 2 months ago, and it’s why I’ve not been against the idea of outside intervention, but I honestly have no idea if the right thing now is to let Iranians work it out for themselves on a level playing field between factions or if there’s a duty to impose secular democracy even if it’s not universally popular.


I guess in theory, a free democracy can evolve into any other kind of country. If you had free and fair elections someone could run on a platform of bringing back an Islamic theocracy, or a monarchy even, and so in that way it’s the best place to “reset” a country to.

One of the biggest problems of this not going through traditional international channels is that no one else is involved in the “what next?” Bit. At least in Iraq and Afghanistan we had dozens of countries around the world trying to form a consensus on what the right path was after the immediate deposing of the regime, and now it’s basically going to be decided in a room with only half a dozen decisions makers. And those decision makers are Jared Kushner, the Trumps, Netanyahu, Miller etc.


It will be very interesting to see what happens on the ground in Iran over the next 48h after Khamenis death is confirmed. I hope Israel and the US back off and see if Iranians themselves start deciding their own future because they can’t do that if they’re all hiding from foreign missiles and bombs.
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That's generally in line with my thoughts, expanded to cover some additional areas.

One difficulty here is religion. Iran is a primarily Shia country. Almost nowhere else of significance is - religiously-opposed nations are going to have to be careful as to how they go about it.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Its likely to have little impact on the regime - when fighting an ideology thats what the rest can't get their heads around. The Allies when faced with Nazism had to attack on the ground from all sides and raze the country to the ground and yet Germany still has neo-Nazi's
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Neo-Nazi's are nothing like the true NAzi's. They're little more than LARPers.

Nazism is dead in the water. No regime in the world truly adhere's to it. It may cough, here and there, but nothing solid. Fact is, Iran being free from the figurehead of their 'Glorious Leader' WILL have an impact, the same way America getting rid of Trump and Israel getting rid of Netenyahu will.

If not, then why do people like you continue to call for their removal in the hope of change?
 
Metal Biker said:
They don't have a prayer against the US. Not now the liberation movement in Iran is growing.
Khamenei was 'the glorious leader'. With him gone, his subordinates will try and fill the void. Meanwhile, those seeking freedom from his regimes oppression, will look to his leaderless, headless sycophants in law enforcement, desperate for instruction, receiving none.

This is when the people of Iran, serious abou liberation, must act, and WE must be there to support them.
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How - how do we help them? Have you seen the size of Iran? The only way you can provide actual support is by committing massive land forces because the average Joe doesn't have access to the weaponry the regime has.

We know how well ground force commitment goes in the Middle East
 
The blue phantom said:
These same posters wanting the Iranian people free are the same ones wanting the Palestinians to be kept in the world's biggest open air prison for the last so many years. I mean these poor bastards have been oppressed by the Israeli's for decades.

You can't make this shit up!
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I think you'll find many on here want Palestinians free from the oppressive and intimidating Hamas regime.... whereas others see Hamas as their 'saviours'.

Funny, no?
 
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