US Politics Thread

FogBlueInSanFran said:
Somehow the system you decry didn’t prevent Gore from making a positive decision for the future of the nation. Clearly he should have fought it tooth and nail and should still be. Amazing how it’s actually the people within the system and not the system that’s really the issue.
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He couldnt beat it could he?
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
Gore gave in too easily because the nation moving forward was more important to him than fighting the electoral battle in the courts forever.

Which is kind of my entire point about the importance of electing moral leaders whose focus is public service, but I’m being told apparently that America alone is the only nation on earth without a fail-safe system to prevent bad actors, so . . . .
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It isnt the only nation on earth that without a fail safe is it? It is however a beacon of a fantatist example of democracy with a system of checks of balances that are demonstrably abused and that enables these people. I dont think Gore gave in too easily either. I think Gore rose above it
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
Somehow the system you decry didn’t prevent Gore from making a positive decision for the future of the nation. Clearly he should have fought it tooth and nail and should still be. Amazing how it’s actually the people within the system and not the system that’s really the issue.
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To be fair, there is a very strong argument that Gore didn’t make a positive decision for the future of the US (or the world) by conceding to Bush and the tactics of the Brooks Brothers rioters, Chaney, Rove, et al. It wasn’t a case of a Trumpian Big Lie—Gore likely actually won the presidency and the increasingly unhinged and out-of-control “neoconservative” movement (which was really the edge of the far-right at that point) ensured the fair and free result was ultimately subverted.

In some ways a not-insignificant amount of what is happening now can be traced back to that decision.

But I agree that the US is certainly not the only western nation with a system struggling to contain and mitigate far-right, fascist actors.

The UK certainly is no poster child for such efforts, so we should be a little circumspect with our criticism.
 
SebastianBlue said:
To be fair, there is a very strong argument that Gore didn’t make a positive decision for the future of the US (or the world) by conceding to Bush and the tactics of the Brooks Brothers rioters, Chaney, Rove, et al. It wasn’t a case of a Trumpian Big Lie—Gore likely actually won the presidency and the increasingly unhinged and out-of-control “neoconservative” movement (which was really the edge of the far-right at that point) ensured the fair and free result was ultimately subverted.

In some ways a not-insignificant amount of what is happening now can be traced back to that decision.

But I agree that the US is certainly not the only western nation with a system struggling to contain and mitigate far-right, fascist actors.

The UK certainly is no poster child for such efforts, so we should be a little circumspect with our criticism.
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You make a good point. But I’d point out that’s also hindsight. What if the US had been effectively leaderless for months on end? What if in that time there’d been an international crisis (as there was not long after)? A ton of awful unknowns were potentially in the mix. Thoughtful public servants must think in terms of contingencies. This was absolutely a worry during the last days of Nixon too.
 
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FogBlueInSanFran said:
You make a good point. But I’d point out that’s also hindsight. if the US had been effectively leaderless for months on end? What if in that time there’d been an international crisis (as there was not long after)? Thoughtful public servants must think in terms of contingencies. This was absolutely a worry during the last days of Nixon too.
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It is indeed important to consider that.

I would answer that question with a question: would the US (or the world) have been worse off by not having Bush, Chaney, Rove, and others in office during an international crisis whilst the election result was fairly determined rather than strong-armed by those people and their near far-right backers?
 
SebastianBlue said:
It is indeed important to consider that.

I would answer that question with a question: would the US (or the world) have been worse off by not having Bush, Chaney, Rove, and others in office during an international crisis whilst the election result was fairly determined rather than strong-armed by those people and their near far-right backers?
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Hmmm. Maybe. But that is perilously close to an ends-justifies-the-means discussion . . .

Anyhow, I will refocus again by saying that where we are has far more to do with rogue actors than the system’s inherent flaws. It’s the pilot not the plane.
 
TinFoilHat said:


Colin Jost roasting Biden tonight.
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Highlights from the evening:
1. Biden saying the 2024 election will be about the candidates' age. because he (Biden) "is running against a 6 year old."
2. Colin Jost remembering that his grandfather, a NYC firefighter, voted for Biden in 2020 "because Joe Biden is a decent man and this election is about decency."

And there you have it, that's the choice.

Oh, and 3, the joke about how one candidate is facing multi-million dollar lawsuits & criminal conspiracy charges while daily stinking out the NY Courtroom with his farts "and yet the two guys are tied in the polls!"
 
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