US Politics Thread

[KS55]

To be fair, there is a very strong argument that Gore didn’t make a positive decision for the future of the US (or the world) by conceding to Bush and the tactics of the Brooks Brothers rioters, Chaney, Rove, et al. It wasn’t a case of a Trumpian Big Lie—Gore likely actually won the presidency and the increasingly unhinged and out-of-control “neoconservative” movement (which was really the edge of the far-right at that point) ensured the fair and free result was ultimately subverted.

In some ways a not-insignificant amount of what is happening now can be traced back to that decision.

But I agree that the US is certainly not the only western nation with a system struggling to contain and mitigate far-right, fascist actors.

The UK certainly is no poster child for such efforts, so we should be a little circumspect with our criticism.

The UK has a good way of getting rid of bad actors. A vote of no confidence requires the PM to hold a new election; not fail safe but pretty good.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Highlights from the evening:
1. Biden saying the 2024 election will be about the candidates' age. because he (Biden) "is running against a 6 year old."
2. Colin Jost remembering that his grandfather, a NYC firefighter, voted for Biden in 2020 "because Joe Biden is a decent man and this election is about decency."

And there you have it, that's the choice.

Oh, and 3, the joke about how one candidate is facing multi-million dollar lawsuits & criminal conspiracy charges while daily stinking out the NY Courtroom with his farts "and yet the two guys are tied in the polls!"

Thank you.

Saves me watching it.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Matt Friend doing the Trump impersonation went down as well as Putin walking into Kiev.

He had the self awareness to realise and did his best to get back on track.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

Thank you.

Saves me watching it.

Another one I've seen quoted:

Biden: "Folks think that what is going on in Congress is political theatre. That is not true. If Congress were theatre, they'd have thrown out Lauren Boebert a long time ago."

My sides.

 

[SebastianBlue]

The UK has a good way of getting rid of bad actors. A vote of no confidence requires the PM to hold a new election; not fail safe but pretty good.

Hasn’t worked particularly well for us the past decade or so, though, which was my point.

Up until recently Americans were saying the court system and impeachment were the best way of getting rid of bad actors.

The issues with both, as @FogBlueInSanFran said, isn’t necessarily the system itself (though, both could be improved), it is the people within them manipulating and corrupting (and at times completely ignoring) the system for their own gain.

 

[KS55]

Hasn’t worked particularly well for us the past decade or so, though, which was my point.

Up until recently Americans were saying the court system and impeachment were the best way of getting rid of bad actors.

The issues with both, as @FogBlueInSanFran said, isn’t necessarily the system itself (though, both could be improved), it is the people within them manipulating and corrupting (and at times completely ignoring) the system for their own gain.

Three of the last four PMs have been junked against their will. Truss in short order. Boris lasted longer than he should but Covid and the Ukraine war got in the way of any moves against him, not to mention the presence of Corbyn.
Voted we’re not needed, just threatened. I think it’s worked fine.

 

[SebastianBlue]

Three of the last four PMs have been junked against their will. Truss in short order. Boris lasted longer than he should but Covid and the Ukraine war got in the way of any moves against him, not to mention the presence of Corbyn.
Voted we’re not needed, just threatened. I think it’s worked fine.

The issue is they were continually replaced with equally or more incompetent and/or malicious actors. The water has kept rushing in as we rearranged the chairs on the top deck.

Sunak, unfortunately, has been the most effective malicious actors of the lot. Only an election will seemingly see him ousted and the Tories have done everything they can to avoid snap elections, even defying increasingly loud calls for it from nearly every quarter outside of the party (and, in some cases, even inside).

Not sure we can say it has worked fine.

Anyway, probably not the thread for this discussion, and I apologise for getting us off topic.

I stand by my assertion that given our current political dysfunction, we should be more circumspect with our criticism of the US’s dysfunction.

 

[KS55]

The issue is they were continually replaced with equally or more incompetent and/or malicious actors. The water has kept rushing in as we rearranged the chairs on the top deck.

Sunak, unfortunately, has been the most effective malicious actors of the lot. Only an election will seemingly see him ousted and the Tories have done everything they can to avoid snap elections, even defying increasingly loud calls for it from nearly every quarter outside of the party (and, in some cases, even inside).

Not sure we can say it has worked fine.

Anyway, probably not the thread for this discussion, and I apologise for getting us off topic.

I stand by my assertion that given our current political dysfunction, we should be more circumspect with our criticism of the US’s dysfunction.

There is a difference between bad actors and incompetent actors. I think you are mixing the two up. Only Boris of the last batch could be considered a bad actor, eg misusing the Royal Prerogative. The others were just incompetent. Sunak’s Ruanda policy is nuts but he has obeyed the court rulings.He would certainly have been junked by his own party if there was an election guaranteed this year.

 

[SebastianBlue]

There is a difference between bad actors and incompetent actors. I think you are mixing the two up. Only Boris of the last batch could be considered a bad actor, eg misusing the Royal Prerogative. The others were just incompetent. Sunak’s Ruanda policy is nuts but he has obeyed the court rulings.He would certainly have been junked by his own party if there was an election guaranteed this year.

As I said, I don’t want to derail this thread in more than I already have. But I will just say I am not mixing up the two: I said “and/or”, meaning some were incompetent, some were bad, and a few were both (they aren’t mutually exclusive: see Trump and Johnson). For me, Sunak is primarily a bad actor, for reasons well beyond the Rwanda policy.

At any rate, we have shown similar political dysfunction to the Americans (Brexit—and everything that came before and after—alone should give one pause when levying scathing criticism of other nations’ systems of government and citizenry) so my point is we should probably temper the comparisons.

Hence why my criticism is always of the actions and events within the US system in the context of what I think should be occurring based on best practices, fundamental principles of good governance, and the law in the country, rather than a comparative analysis to what occurs in the UK or other nations.

 

[KS55]

As I said, I don’t want to derail this thread in more than I already have. But I will just say I am not mixing up the two: I said “and/or”, meaning some were incompetent, some were bad, and a few were both (they aren’t mutually exclusive: see Trump and Johnson). For me, Sunak is primarily a bad actor, for reasons well beyond the Rwanda policy.

At any rate, we have shown similar political dysfunction to the Americans (Brexit—and everything that came before and after—alone should give one pause when levying scathing criticism of other nations’ systems of government and citizenry) so my point is we should probably temper the comparisons.

Hence why my criticism is always of the actions and events within the US system in the context of what I think should be occurring based on best practices, fundamental principles of good governance, and the law in the country, rather than a comparative analysis to what occurs in the UK or other nations.

Still nope!!