US Politics Thread

[Postman Pep]

It isn’t. Trust me.

I agree that Trump is worse than Biden on every level. I don’t agree with the stupid dumbshit absolutism in each sentence of his idiot tweet that suggests that’s the be-all end-all of how Biden’s supporters support him. Which you thought was profound, apparently.

Not really. It was an observation that resonated with me .... and the more you piss your pants the more profound it gets.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Not really. It was an observation that resonated with me .... and the more you piss your pants the more profound it gets.

Bad absolutist observations tend to resonate with shallow people looking for simple answers to complicated issues and questions — especially those too lazy to do their homework. Much easier to generaliz(s)e about “all” or “everybody.”

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Why would an American (young or old) not wanting to fight for the US in Vietnam or for Israel in Gaza make them a “snowflake”? Or protesting on their campuses either the war on Vietnam or the war on Palestine?

Half of them couldn’t find Vietnam or Gaza on a map and gave no clue why America is even involved. “Hey, let’s dress up and have a protest so we don’t have to do Finals!”

In addition, I have no problem with “having a protest,” but this bullshit about 19 yr olds telling an Ivy League School what they should and should not invest their endowments in is a fucking joke…but they “demand” they divest? SNOWFLAKE!!

Also—and I may have missed it—have you denounced the pro-Israel counterprotestors that were allowed to violently assault the pro-Palestinian protesters seemingly without consequence?

I think I’ve made it patently obvious I abhor any and all unprovoked violence. The police were called in on the violence to which you refer, but ON CAMPUS violence is usually dealt with by CAMPUS POLICE, unless local PD is called to assist…as we have seen at other universities.

Surely, if students and faculty barricading themselves in a landmark building is worthy of police actions and arrests, open violence against protestors is worthy of it or more?

Surely, if you understood the issues at hand you would know this already, but I answered it for you above.

 

[idahoblues]

Gay

 

[SebastianBlue]

Half of them couldn’t find Vietnam or Gaza on a map and gave no clue why America is even involved. “Hey, let’s dress up and have a protest so we don’t have to do Finals!”

What evidence do you have for the Ivy League students not being able to find Vietnam or Gaza on a map? Or that they have no clue why America is involved? Or that they are only protesting to avoid taking finals?

This seems to be pure opinion and hyperbole.

In addition, I have no problem with “having a protest,” but this bullshit about 19 yr olds telling an Ivy League School what they should and should not invest their endowments in is a fucking joke…but they “demand” they divest? SNOWFLAKE!!

Ivy League (and many other) students demanded divestment from apartheid South Africa in the 70s and 80s — were those “snowflakes”, as well?

What exactly should the protestors be asking for in your opinion? And when and how can they protest—and about what—in your opinion?

Keep in mind the act of protest is inherently meant to be disruptive and provocative, so any argument that protest is only acceptable if it causes no disruption or provocation is essentially arguing against the concept of protest itself.

Which would be a strange stance to take as someone that has, in other discussions, extolled the virtues and—even the moral superiority—of free expression in the United States.

I think I’ve made it patently obvious I abhor any and all unprovoked violence. The police were called in on the violence to which you refer, but ON CAMPUS violence is usually dealt with by CAMPUS POLICE, unless local PD is called to assist…as we have seen at other universities.

Are you implying that the violence that the pro-Israel counterprotestors carried out on the pro-Palestine protestors at UCLA was “provoked” and therefore ok? Because it does not seem you are denouncing it, but rather subtly supporting it.

If you support that violence, why?

And the police were called well after the violence began. When they arrived they stood and watched it unfold for quite some time, before finally stepping in to simply tell the pro-Israel counterprotestors carrying out the violent attack to leave or face arrest. This despite the mass assault itself being very definitely illegal and many of the police clearly witnessing specific people physically assaulting protestors in the encampment (many requiring medical care in the aftermath).

If you believe the protests themselves to be illegal, and therefore should be dealt with by police, including forced removal and arrest, why would you be comfortable with aggravated mass assault being ignored by police, campus or otherwise (the distinction between campus or local police, or even state troopers, is irrelevant in this discussion, as all were present for the violence and chose not to act appropriately).

Surely, if you understood the issues at hand you would know this already, but I answered it for you above.

I do understand the issues at hand (I have first hand experience with this sort of thing, actually), and am quite close to the underlying events themselves, unfortunately, hence why I am asking you these questions.

I genuinely don’t understand your stance, as it seems to be contradictory (i.e. you only seemingly support “law and order” in certain cases, largely based on ideological lines based on your comments, and seem quite derisive of protests in general, despite claiming you have “no problem” with them).

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

The One with Jared Moskowitz on earlier was fuckin awful and so one sided. He went after his fellow Democrats because they'd gone in some support of the protesters. He was clearly having a dig at AOC.

Very good speech here and Bernie is taking no prisoners.

Top man.

 

[SebastianBlue]

Top man.

I think you and I would agree Sanders could actually be considered a “decent” man in general, even if we do not agree with all of his political views. :-)

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I think you and I would agree Sanders could actually be considered a “decent” man in general, even if we do not agree with all of his political views. :-)

Yes we could!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

What evidence do you have for the Ivy League students not being able to find Vietnam or Gaza on a map? Or that they have no clue why America is involved? Or that they are only protesting to avoid taking finals?

This seems to be pure opinion and hyperbole.

Could have sworn this was a place to share opinions?!

My opinion, from seeing the wall to wall coverage in the US, is that most of those I have heard speak have very little knowledge of the geopolitics and it’s all about “baby killers.”

That’s “snowflake” mentality, as it ignores the reality and horrific nature of war…from Oct 7th onwards.

Ivy League (and many other) students demanded divestment from apartheid South Africa in the 70s and 80s — were those “snowflakes”, as well?

Yes, if they used illegal means to get their point across, as opposed to simply applying for a permit, marching when able, and speaking up for the cause.

What exactly should the protestors be asking for in your opinion? And when and how can they protest—and about what—in your opinion?

Keep in mind the act of protest is inherently meant to be disruptive and provocative, so any argument that protest is only acceptable if it causes no disruption or provocation is essentially arguing against the concept of protest itself.

Which would be a strange stance to take as someone that has, in other discussions, extolled the virtues and—even the moral superiority—of free expression in the United States.


Are you implying that the violence that the pro-Israel counterprotestors carried out on the pro-Palestine protestors at UCLA was “provoked” and therefore ok? Because it does not seem you are denouncing it, but rather subtly supporting it.

If you support that violence, why?

And the police were called well after the violence began. When they arrived they stood and watched it unfold for quite some time, before finally stepping in to simply tell the pro-Israel counterprotestors carrying out the violent attack to leave or face arrest. This despite the mass assault itself being very definitely illegal and many of the police clearly witnessing specific people physically assaulting protestors in the encampment (many requiring medical care in the aftermath).

If you believe the protests themselves to be illegal, and therefore should be dealt with by police, including forced removal and arrest, why would you be comfortable with aggravated mass assault being ignored by police, campus or otherwise (the distinction between campus or local police, or even state troopers, is irrelevant in this discussion, as all were present for the violence and chose not to act appropriately).


I do understand the issues at hand (I have first hand experience with this sort of thing, actually), and am quite close to the underlying events themselves, unfortunately, hence why I am asking you these questions.

I genuinely don’t understand your stance, as it seems to be contradictory (i.e. you only seemingly support “law and order” in certain cases, largely based on ideological lines based on your comments, and seem quite derisive of protests in general, despite claiming you have “no problem” with them).

“Free expression,” just like 1A, ends at illegality. Then, law and order takes over, otherwise chaos and anarchy ensue, no??

My belief in law and order is, ironically, considered in opposition to my left leaning tendencies in the USA, but non-ideological.

Nowhere have I acquiesced to assault, your ridiculous extrapolations notwithstanding. YOU posited that I was somehow oblivious to, or willfully ignoring, the clashes in CA. I was neither. Indeed, the Police were called to subdue and snuff out the violence, of which I am both aware and approve.

It appears one of us has an ideological bent, but it’s not me.

I think Israel has the right to defend itself and to exact war to get its citizen hostages back from the Hamas terrorists who slaughtered thousands of innocents while taking the hostages.

Last I checked, even though the Israelis have decimated much of Gaza seeking the hostages, Hamas still refuses to hand over those hostages. Quandary.

If it was my son or daughter that was kidnapped, I’d be happy my country was still hunting for them. You?

Why is a Hamas supporter worth more than the Israeli that was taken?

And, to bring it back to the U.S. college students, I’d be much more impressed by some of the nonsense I have seen to date if someone had some insight or cogent responses to why they’re doing what they’re doing, why it has to devolve into unlawful behavior (including encampments on university grounds) and why they felt it was up to them to make ANY demands of a university most of them begged to attend?!

I have zero issue with anyone protesting anything, until it crosses the line from free speech to illegal assembly or violence.

I also understand that some people believe civil disobedience is meant to be disobedient. Fine, but cross the line into non-civil (illegal) and you’ve fucked up and need redress.

 

[Alvin-blue-qhd]

Fine, but cross the line into non-civil (illegal) and you’ve fucked up and need redress.

I like this part, bro.