US Politics Thread

[mat]

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

I think that the UK is safe from this sort idiocy atm.

Just make sure that the right wing propaganda in the guise of news as is being spread by Rupert Murdoch-owned entities across the globe doesn't begin to take a foothold in the UK.

Once it does, you'll have a segment of your population who won't listen to actual facts and instead believe that whatever Tucker Carlson says is the gospel truth. If and when - and I hope that this never occurs - this segment of your population reaches enough size to sway elections, you're in trouble.

I've argued before that the anti-science, anti-factual broadcasts put forth by Murdoch-owned and similar organizations needs to be regulated.

Quite frankly, believers in this sort of stuff are members of a cult. Our trusted leaders proclaim that X is true - so X must be true. And if X is true, then, really, I need to do Y and Z.

Completely unfettered free speech versus the right to a functioning society. This is the major issue of our times.

 

[mat]

I think that the UK is safe from this sort idiocy atm.

Just make sure that the right wing propaganda in the guise of news as is being spread by Rupert Murdoch-owned entities across the globe doesn't begin to take a foothold in the UK.

Once it does, you'll have a segment of your population who won't listen to actual facts and instead believe that whatever Tucker Carlson says is the gospel truth. If and when - and I hope that this never occurs - this segment of your population reaches enough size to sway elections, you're in trouble.

I've argued before that the anti-science, anti-factual broadcasts put forth by Murdoch-owned and similar organizations needs to be regulated.

Quite frankly, believers in this sort of stuff are members of a cult. Our trusted leaders proclaim that X is true - so X must be true. And if X is true, then, really, I need to do Y and Z.

Completely unfettered free speech versus the right to a functioning society. This is the major issue of our times.

That ship sailed years ago sadly.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

That ship sailed years ago sadly.

Please clarify. I don't know what you precisely mean.

 

[mat]

Please clarify. I don't know what you precisely mean.

The majority of our media outlets are right wing.

 

[west didsblue]

I think that the UK is safe from this sort idiocy atm.

Just make sure that the right wing propaganda in the guise of news as is being spread by Rupert Murdoch-owned entities across the globe doesn't begin to take a foothold in the UK.

Once it does, you'll have a segment of your population who won't listen to actual facts and instead believe that whatever Tucker Carlson says is the gospel truth. If and when - and I hope that this never occurs - this segment of your population reaches enough size to sway elections, you're in trouble.

I've argued before that the anti-science, anti-factual broadcasts put forth by Murdoch-owned and similar organizations needs to be regulated.

Quite frankly, believers in this sort of stuff are members of a cult. Our trusted leaders proclaim that X is true - so X must be true. And if X is true, then, really, I need to do Y and Z.

Completely unfettered free speech versus the right to a functioning society. This is the major issue of our times.

You’ve just described how Brexit happened and why so many still believe in it in spite of all the evidence that it’s hugely detrimental to the country.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

The question is who decides? An unelected court plucking a right to abortion out of thin air or the people's representatives who are accountable to their voters and can be removed if the majority disagree? The supreme court didn't ban abortion, it returned the decision to where it should always have been, within the democratic process. The American federal system allows for people with different views on this emotive subject to set different laws according to the political persuasion of the state they live in and this seems like the fairest way to resolve this to me.

And the answer is: a woman. She is free to get an abortion, or not. People with “different views” on this “emotive subject” are free not to get abortions.

 

[urban genie]

You’ve just described how Brexit happened and why so many still believe in it in spite of all the evidence that it’s hugely detrimental to the country.

A difference though is brexit was thought of as a special issues affecting everyday lives, arbortion or the cranks against it is based on a fundemental religious mindset, and the UK public and electorate really isn't arsed about the bible or christian dogma as much the septics

 

[west didsblue]

A difference though is brexit was thought of as a special issues affecting everyday lives, arbortion or the cranks against it is based on a fundemental religious mindset, and the UK public and electorate really isn't arsed about the bible or christian dogma as much the septics

I was talking about the influence of the billionaire controlled media, not the religious aspect.

 

[urban genie]

I was talking about the influence of the billionaire controlled media, not the religious aspect.

I know you was, however..
You was the latest response to the conversation over the tiktok post, would be rude to but in and ignore your opinion.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Doing some more reading today and decided that the majority save Thomas tried to call out abortion as a special case, and their evisceration of stare decisis is stated as specific to this particular issue, not same sex relationships or contraception (SS marriage is another thing).

Now I have to decide whether or not I believe them.

Also realized Kavanaugh’s concurrence was a function of trying to publicly rationalize and defend his comments during his hearing about Casey. His concurrence literally adds no value beyond that. It’s very odd.

But of course this doesn’t change anything. There are enough hard red states to block any and all attempts to re-legalize abortion at a Federal level unless we do away with the filibuster. And yet more disharmony and disunity and intra-continental drift between blue and red states, and urban/rural populations within states. It’s going to take a long time to fix this. Decades, probably.

 

[Javi Garcia's Hairstylist]

I have always felt that places as disparate as, for example, Vermont and Mississippi should never be required to live under the same rules. The attempt to make it so leads only to rancor and mutual hatred.

This abortion dynamic is a perfect example. Everyone fucking melting down marching here in the streets of Boston are protesting.... something that will never apply here or to them. Rather pointless as a use of time and energy, if you ask me. I get showing solidarity with our sisters in Little Rock and whatnot, but they can always come here if they want one.

Leaving aside the issue of actual discrimination against people as the slavery/Jim Crow "States Rights" idiots always wanted. You can't have that. That is the province of nation-wide rule-making for sure.

Past that, I think Federalism has a lot in its favor. The alternative could eventually result in the dissolution of the country. So if Oklahoma wants to legalize all firearms, lower the age of consent to 11 (provided it isn't already), and ban abortion? Well those hillbillies will be happier under their rules and not ours and vice-versa.

Oh, I kid because I care, Oklahoma. I actually worked there for the better part of two years. It's just a place like every other place with people wanting mostly the same things that people everywhere want. But if left to their own devices, yeah, I suppose you'd have all those things going into effect.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

I have always felt that places as disparate as, for example, Vermont and Mississippi should never be required to live under the same rules. The attempt to make it so leads only to rancor and mutual hatred.

This abortion dynamic is a perfect example. Everyone fucking melting down marching here in the streets of Boston are protesting.... something that will never apply here or to them. Rather pointless as a use of time and energy, if you ask me. I get showing solidarity with our sisters in Little Rock and whatnot, but they can always come here if they want one.

Leaving aside the issue of actual discrimination against people as the slavery/Jim Crow "States Rights" idiots always wanted. You can't have that. That is the province of nation-wide rule-making for sure.

Past that, I think Federalism has a lot in its favor. The alternative could eventually result in the dissolution of the country. So if Oklahoma wants to legalize all firearms, lower the age of consent to 11 (provided it isn't already), and ban abortion? Well those hillbillies will be happier under their rules and not ours and vice-versa.

Oh, I kid because I care, Oklahoma. I actually worked there for the better part of two years. It's just a place like every other place with people wanting mostly the same things that people everywhere want. But if left to their own devices, yeah, I suppose you'd have all those things going into effect.

A curious post.
I disagree though. It's still, "We the People, right?!?!"

 

[urban genie]

I have always felt that places as disparate as, for example, Vermont and Mississippi should never be required to live under the same rules. The attempt to make it so leads only to rancor and mutual hatred.

This abortion dynamic is a perfect example. Everyone fucking melting down marching here in the streets of Boston are protesting.... something that will never apply here or to them. Rather pointless as a use of time and energy, if you ask me. I get showing solidarity with our sisters in Little Rock and whatnot, but they can always come here if they want one.

Leaving aside the issue of actual discrimination against people as the slavery/Jim Crow "States Rights" idiots always wanted. You can't have that. That is the province of nation-wide rule-making for sure.

Past that, I think Federalism has a lot in its favor. The alternative could eventually result in the dissolution of the country. So if Oklahoma wants to legalize all firearms, lower the age of consent to 11 (provided it isn't already), and ban abortion? Well those hillbillies will be happier under their rules and not ours and vice-versa.

Oh, I kid because I care, Oklahoma. I actually worked there for the better part of two years. It's just a place like every other place with people wanting mostly the same things that people everywhere want. But if left to their own devices, yeah, I suppose you'd have all those things going into effect.

As an outsider, I have always thought America being built by adding states over a long period of time and essencially being a continental sized nation is probably too hard to govern federally, but then having each state be allowed to imposed fundemental laws for the populace of their state that other citizens of the same country may never have to abide by is batshit crazy.

The daft cunts at the start should have been happy with the British colonies they rebelled against and left the central palins and west coast to develop independently as seperated nations

If they follow the history of humanity the US will eventually break up into smaller nations not many large nations last more than 3-4 centuries, even the roman empire went through several retcons to survive so long.

Saying that, there may be more that unites you than divides you and a common national identity and pride that goes beyond law making.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

As an outsider, I have always thought America being built by adding states over a long period of time and essencially being a continental sized nation is probably too hard to govern federally, but then having each state be allowed to imposed fundemental laws for the populace of their state that other citizens of the same country may never have to abide by is batshit crazy.

The daft cunts at the start should have been happy with the British colonies they rebelled against and left the central palins and west coast to develop independently as seperated nations

If they follow the history of humanity the US will eventually break up into smaller nations not many large nations last more than 3-4 centuries, even the roman empire went through several retcons to survive so long.

Saying that, there may be more that united you than divides you and a common national identity and pride that goes beyond law making.

It's extremely unclear where America goes from here. You may well be right - but odds are that something else transpires.

 

[Blue_Lightsaber]

Doing some more reading today and decided that the majority save Thomas tried to call out abortion as a special case, and their evisceration of stare decisis is stated as specific to this particular issue, not same sex relationships or contraception (SS marriage is another thing).

Now I have to decide whether or not I believe them.

Also realized Kavanaugh’s concurrence was a function of trying to publicly rationalize and defend his comments during his hearing about Casey. His concurrence literally adds no value beyond that. It’s very odd.

But of course this doesn’t change anything. There are enough hard red states to block any and all attempts to re-legalize abortion at a Federal level unless we do away with the filibuster. And yet more disharmony and disunity and intra-continental drift between blue and red states, and urban/rural populations within states. It’s going to take a long time to fix this. Decades, probably.

I don't believe him for one moment..

They are Christian radicals and they want Christian Sharia..

So Step 1 for them: no abortion (control women)
Step 2: no marriage equality (control men)
Step 3: no privacy in bedroom.. states can arrest gays/ trans (villify the others)
Step 4: public executions of those that don't conform to their radical christianity views. (expel the others)

You might think its hyperbole but just see how some countries go from liberal to extreme and we're well on our way to becoming one.. and they have wanted this for 5 decades now.

The only thing that stops us sliding further is a national divorce and for us to go our seperate ways before we kill each other in another uncivil war.

I have my doubts on us doing the right thing but the thing is I've heard some on the right call for secession and a national divorce too.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I have always felt that places as disparate as, for example, Vermont and Mississippi should never be required to live under the same rules. The attempt to make it so leads only to rancor and mutual hatred.

This abortion dynamic is a perfect example. Everyone fucking melting down marching here in the streets of Boston are protesting.... something that will never apply here or to them. Rather pointless as a use of time and energy, if you ask me. I get showing solidarity with our sisters in Little Rock and whatnot, but they can always come here if they want one.

Leaving aside the issue of actual discrimination against people as the slavery/Jim Crow "States Rights" idiots always wanted. You can't have that. That is the province of nation-wide rule-making for sure.

Past that, I think Federalism has a lot in its favor. The alternative could eventually result in the dissolution of the country. So if Oklahoma wants to legalize all firearms, lower the age of consent to 11 (provided it isn't already), and ban abortion? Well those hillbillies will be happier under their rules and not ours and vice-versa.

Oh, I kid because I care, Oklahoma. I actually worked there for the better part of two years. It's just a place like every other place with people wanting mostly the same things that people everywhere want. But if left to their own devices, yeah, I suppose you'd have all those things going into effect.

I find the actual discrimination argument interesting. Was thinking today — what is something women are allowed to do that men are not by law? I couldn’t think of anything. Yet here we have something women are no longer allowed to do in some places if they get pregnant, whereas the law cannot definitionally apply to men.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I don't believe him for one moment..

They are Christian radicals and they want Christian Sharia..

So Step 1 for them: no abortion (control women)
Step 2: no marriage equality (control men)
Step 3: no privacy in bedroom.. states can arrest gays/ trans (villify the others)
Step 4: public executions of those that don't conform to their radical christianity views. (expel the others)

You might think its hyperbole but just see how some countries go from liberal to extreme and we're well on our way to becoming one.. and they have wanted this for 5 decades now.

The only thing that stops us sliding further is a national divorce and for us to go our seperate ways before we kill each other in another uncivil war.

I have my doubts on us doing the right thing but the thing is I've heard some on the right call for secession and a national divorce too.

There have been a few secession calls in California too, from both left (the entire state) and right (the State of Jefferson movement).

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Free to carry a gun, not free for a woman's right to choose.

What a fucking mess such an amazing country has become.

These religious nutters have taken over the asylum, thanks to a stacked deck from a useless **** who had probably never picked up a Bible until he decided to run for Office.

Many can say what they want about Biden, but he is an inherently good man who must despair that after reaching such a grand old age, has seen his country move so far backwards.

 

[Blue_Lightsaber]

Free to carry a gun, not free for a woman's right to choose.

What a fucking mess such an amazing country has become.

These religious nutters have taken over the asylum, thanks to a stacked deck from a useless **** who had probably never picked up a Bible until he decided to run for Office.

Many can say what they want about Biden, but he is an inherently good man who must despair that after reaching such a grand old age, has seen his country move so far backwards.

Agree 100% but the only thing I'll add..

He's powerless to stop it thanks to the "stacked deck" you mentioned.