US Politics Thread

I'm old enough to remember when Republicans used to claim "character counts." I'm old enough to remember when Republicans used to say they believed in an originalist, textualist approach to the Constitution, whereas Democrats and liberals believed in an un-American "evolving" attitude and analysis. Now what? Republicans now believe that a man who fomented a criminal conspiracy - a white collar insurrection - to overturn an election, subvert the Constitutional order, and install himself as POTUS operating under color of law is a fit person in 2024 to take care that the laws are faithfully executed. It's got to be a joke, right?

Since Reagan, the Republican Party spent decades branding itself as the party of family values, the party of personal responsibility, the party faithful to the Constitution, the party of law and order, the party of national defence and they have tossed it all away for Donald Trump.

It seems to me that Trump, since day one, is selling victim-hood. I think the "left" does this too frankly. To the left, in their oppressor / oppressed dialectic with their hierarchy of victims, EVERYONE is a victim of the straight, white, male - the only constant. If they can't actually find a straight, white, male to blame actively engaged in oppression they blame structural racism for less than optimal outcomes. I've looked into claims of structural racism in sentencing, arrest, and indictment disparities in the criminal justice system and they may have a point here, but I'm not going to argue about it now. I'll end with this - Democrat politicians always stoke fear in black Americans that the evil white Republican is going to oppress them. Maxine Waters on TV years ago before an election saying that Republicans want to put blacks back in chains, and Joe Biden recently speaking before a class of black guys graduating from college claiming Republicans want to "take away your freedoms." They do it every election cycle. The message is - the only thing standing between you black folks and oppression is us, the Democrats.

Trump is selling victim-hood. In Trump-world, the victim is America herself, and, by extension, American citizens.
America is a nation in decline, in many cases a shit-hole. America used to be great, but now, she isn't? What caused this?

The military industrial complex and neo-cons and their forever wars that America never wins. The un-elected Federal bureaucracy. Rogue intelligence agencies that service internationalist interests. Globalists. The main stream media. Post-modern university professors and their left-wing academic cliques. The U.N. and anti-American NGOs. West and east coast cosmopolitan elites. The Deep State.

Trumps "enemy within."

America has been stabbed in the back. That's what Trump sells imo. America has been stabbed in the back but I will save America and all of you.

"They're not coming after me" he says to his supporters, "they're coming after you, I'm just in the way." And now, Trump uses the civil and criminal cases against him as exhibit number one.
As a straight white male I too felt a rush of anger/resentment when “I” was “blamed” for the ills of the world by many not just progressives but moderates. But then I realized that there are aspects (not all) of the “white male privilege” argument that are sound, and I read an interesting book called “The Diversity Bonus” that made a good scientific case for the benefits of perspective differential in organizations. So I got over it. I get that a lot of people won’t/can’t, and that doesn’t mean blaming the ills of society on any single group isn’t wrong, whomever it is.
 
This is why my neighbors voted for him.

1. Illegal Immigration.
2. Inflation.
3. Second Amendment.
4. Federal judicial picks.
5. Peace with Russia / get rid of all the war-mongering neocons.
6. National debt.

The above is most of it in a nutshell. But let me try and put the correct framing on it in light of everything else in your post..

The way I see it, and I believe this is true for most, liberals, conservatives and independent. There are primary and secondary motivating factors for voting


For the average conservative/Republican leaning voter, and a good sum of the independent voters Inflation and illegal immigration were the biggest motivators and the primary motivating factor for them. This makes total sense to me. As these are issues that are personal and affects their everyday lives. The cost of things matter to most people who are barely scraping by.

For conservatives who are politically inclined - ( I.e the types of people who'd come on threads like this or bring up politics in everyday discussions) Federal Judicial picks, Second Amendment fears, and the fight to save the life of the unborn are very important. So are issues of foreign policy, the wars abroad and Americas funding of parts of them. These types of people are a minority though. They are consistent voters but a small %. And their issues are mostly secondary motivators for the larger voting electorate.


For Independents (and this is backed by data, so not my opinion )what motivated them primarily to vote decidedly Republican were the issues of Transgenderism, DEI, and Critical Race Theory. The effects this was having in their places of work and in their children schools. Again, a primary motivator because it was personal. Their jobs, their lives, and those of their children were directly impacted by this new wave of philosophies.

As for the average liberal (again according to research) the motivating factors were mostly what to me seemed on average secondary motivating factors. 1. Threat to Democracy, 2. Character of the candidates, and 3. Abortion being the most highlighted reasons.

I admit, right to abort is one that can be deemed a primary motivating factor. The others aren't really. They are secondary.

So it's not surprising that people will vote more on primary factors than they will on secondary factors.

Granted, if everything was going to be equal no matter who you voted for, sure secondary factors like the character of the candidate might come into play for the average American, but everything else isn't going to be equal. One wants to aggressively shut th border down, the order spent 3 years pretending it wasn't an issue. One wants to clear out DEI practices in Govt and in Schools, the other publicly promotes it

Giving that the potential outcomes are drastically different, why would the average citizens limit their choice to the character of the candidates? This pretends their admins will do exactly the same thing. When clearly they won't.

This, ' but character ' argument is so strange... By the way, it's not like the other candidate has a sterling character. It's just that they've concluded it's not as bad... Anyway


There is nothing strange or crazy about this election. It was so basic and annoyingly obvious how it was always most likely to go... I pointed this out several times before the election. The surprise results would have been a Harris win.

Frankly, I think the results were closer than the trends suggests it should have been. This is probably is due to how poor of a candidate Trump himself is...

But the factors on the ground were so decidedly against the Democrats that to use Foggy's words " a ham sandwich" was likely to defeat the Democratic candidate. Especially in light of how poor the candidate was and how much they disregarded the very thing they claimed to want to protect the most in selecting her.

Anyway, thanks for your analysis. It covered a lot. And hopefully you are a messenger some might listen to. I clearly fall mostly on deaf ears.
 
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We’re not electing a saint.” Well, we should be trying to. We used to. And that’s not what they said about Hillary’s emails or Hunter Biden’s laptop or Harris sleeping with Willie Brown — it mattered then.
Again, I don't wanna point out these obvious poor conclusions you are reaching, as you'd probably turn around and accuse me of attacking you for simply not wanting to get a drink :)

But the obvious conclusion to reach here is not that conservatives cared about character in the above.... No, no, no, what the above actually shows is that you don't care about character either. You don't care that Kamala Harris kept a black men in jail long after she has evidence he was innocent. You don't care that she was sleeping with a married man to curry favors or that Hunter Biden and Joe were using the vice Presidency as an influence peddling business. You did not care about the Rape allegations related to Clinton or Biden

Character is only an issue when it relates to the guy you personally don't like. It's that hypocrisy that the electorate saw through. Of course everyone thinks character matters. But it's never been the deciding factor. Not for you or them. Ar best character might make one sit it out, but it won't make them vote for the person who is diametrically opposed to their personal interest.

The notion that one should vote against their own personal interest is just absurd!

Luckily, most can see you pick and choose when character matters conveniently.
But that’s not really the issue. The issue is next time, when someone even worse comes along, being a fundamentally decent, normal person won’t matter. And that’s the lesson here. That’s the lesson we should all take away. It doesn’t matter to the majority of voters in America. It’s not the most important thing to people any more, period.
If you voted for Clinton you were already subscribed to the character only matters secondarily platoon anyways. So

And giving your attitude towards the rape allegations related to Biden 4 years ago, one is hard pressed to buy your new found 'its all about character ' position now. Seems convenient.


But hey, let's just chalk it all up to me being bitter that the wonderful Foggy didn't wanna have a drink :)
 
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Again, I don't wanna point out these obvious poor conclusions you are reaching, as you'd probably turn around and accuse me of attacking you for simply not wanting to get a drink :)

But the obvious conclusion to reach here is not that conservatives cared about character in the above.... No, no, no, what the above actually shows is that you don't care about character either. You don't care that Kamala Harris kept a black men in jail long after she has evidence he was innocent. You don't care that she was sleeping with a married man to curry favors or that Hunter Biden and Joe were using the vice Presidency as an influence peddling business. You did not care about the Rape allegations related to Clinton or Biden

Character is only an issue when it relates to the guy you personally don't like. It's that hypocrisy that the electorate saw through. Of course everyone thinks character matters. But it's never been the deciding factor. Not for you or them. Ar best character might make one sit it out, but it won't make them vote for the person who is diametrically opposed to their personal interest.

The notion that one should vote against their own personal interest is just absurd!

Luckily, most can see you pick and choose when character matters conveniently.

If you voted for Clinton you were already subscribed to the character only matters secondarily platoon anyways. So

And giving your attitude towards the rape allegations related to Biden 4 years ago, one is hard pressed to buy your new found 'its all about character ' position now. Seems convenient.


But hey, let's just chalk it all up to me being bitter that the wonderful Foggy didn't wanna have a drink :)
They all sound shady to me.

Genuine question. To all. Not just Dax.

Is there any senior politicians in either party that both sides of the electorate would consider honest/moral/capable.
 
They all sound shady to me.

Genuine question. To all. Not just Dax.

Is there any senior politicians in either party that both sides of the electorate would consider honest/moral/capable.
Loads. Buttigieg is the immediate one for the Democrats, obviously, but he is gay and America is still too backward to consider that. Nikki Haley was a very capable and qualified lady for the Reps, but they dont seem ready to consider women either.
 
They all sound shady to me.

Genuine question. To all. Not just Dax.

Is there any senior politicians in either party that both sides of the electorate would consider honest/moral/capable.
Sure. But politics to some extent is a popularity context.
The most honest, moral or capable people are not always the most compelling. America doesn't have a shortage of capable politicians. They just often are not as popular or as favored as the less capable.

But also ideology puts some shade on it. Generally Democrats/liberals don't find conservatives capable and vice versa.

In my estimation, there are 2 types of Republicans, liberals tend to like... Ones that have already lost - Romney, etc. Or ones that can't win. Nikki Haley. In short, it sounds like liberals ( subconsciously perhaps) like Conservatives that lose or will lose to Democrats.

In fairness, most liberal who I think fit all 3 criteria also will most likely never win a Democratic primary... Josh Shapiro being the most obvious example...

As for politicians who are capable of expressing the views of their faction most eloquently to the public, Pete Buttigieg and J. D Vance strike me as the 2 most capable I've seen so far

And their honesty and morality are both of high standards. But I can't speak to either's capabilities as an executive. JD Vance was a Senator with little experience running the executive branch. And Buttigieg time as the Secretary of Transportation can be at best described as unimpressive.

I generally favor Governor of States over Senators or Congressmen. Because the Governorship gives ample experience.

To that effect Josh Shapiro for Democrats and Ron Desantis for Republicans would be the 2 best all round fits. But Pete and JD are far more likely to be compelling candidates.
 
I feel bad for laughing.

Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg’s Assistant Robbed by Venezuelan Gang Member.

Federal records show that he was taken into custody by ICE upon entering the country but was quickly released with a notice to appear before an immigration judge in New York City. He was also set to be deported, but federal authorities threw out the case in February without explanation.

Despite the reversal of his deportation order, Simosa has also amassed a lengthy arrest record in New York City. He has been arrested for assault, grand larceny, robbery, retail theft, and even transit incidents.

Joe Biden's secure border. Fucking senile twat.
 

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