US Politics Thread

FogBlueInSanFran said:
Even more own pick-up trucks.

I don’t think of Trump’s voters’ selection of him as a striving of his support base for the nation to be better off — I look at it as a pool of people who aren’t where they perceive others are financially, believe a certain subset of people/politicians are exclusively to blame (not themselves), and see Trump as their angel of retribution who won’t necessarily restore their own glory, but will make the perpetrators of his voters’ unhappiness suffer.

Socially, they’ve been brought up in and grounded themselves in a socio-religious construct which the left has deemed morally-wanting — anti-DEI, anti-immigrant, anti-abortion rights, anti-LGTBQ wide-scale rights and acceptance. It’s okay to be black, foreign, childless and gay as long as they know you personally and you’ve been deemed acceptable company — that you “fit in.” But not as a class — only individuals. As such, they don’t just feel looked down upon, but perceive that they’ve been told their beliefs are “wrong” morally. That raises hackles.

It doesn’t help the rest of us that, despite the vast majority of Trump supporters like being conservative but not extreme, that the vast majority of the GOP — Trump included — has often hemmed and hawed about the support of extremists for fear of offending them. Imagine not wanting to offend the KKK.

Anyhow, even those who @Username Required mentioned — his friends and neighbors — focus on these aspects, and they don’t sound anything like poor or destitute or bigoted or desperately yearning for a better life. Their primary motivations are fear-based, as he noted. And it’s 100% addition by subtraction — a zero sum game. Nearly every plank of the GOP’s platform has “others suffering” as a component. Read it. I did.
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Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure where the GOP platform is to read. Is there a "manifesto" as such? I can't imagine how most of what Trump says could easily be written as a cogent policy!

Have I understood the bit about what raises hackles? That people who criticise the morality of abortion, being gay, or of immigration, or of equality legislation (equality at the heart of the constitution), have their hackles raised by liberals advocating more liberal morality?

What I can't get my head round is that the aspirational mindset - anyone can by merit have a good and prosperous life - has a corollary, that it must be my fault if I'm not prosperous. Teleevangelists preaching a prosperity gospel (faith rewarded with prosperity) compound that (and with the implication that "others suffering" is their fault).
 
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Vic said:
What indictment?

Perhaps the headlines at the "poor" end of the spectrum are because about 0.5% of Americans own a Tesla. I assume you're not saying that, when everyone says Trump won because of the cost of living, people vote for Trump because they hope to drive a Tesla.
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Anybody who voted for Trump because of the cost of living is too stupid to have a vote, but then that’s democracy, eh?!

As for Tesla’s, like most big ticket items, they are an aspirational purchase for some, much like a second home, etc., that many people attempt to achieve. They are broad indicators not specific items.
 
Vic said:
Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure where the GOP platform is to read. Is there a "manifesto" as such? I can't imagine how most of what Trump says could easily be written as a cogent policy!
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This is the GOP platform/plan - but yeah, Trump knows nothing about it.
www.project2025.org

Playbook | Project 2025

The fourth pillar of Project 2025 is our 180-day Transition Playbook and includes a comprehensive, concrete transition plan for each federal agency. Only through the implementation of specific action plans at each agency will the next conservative presidential Administration be successful...
www.project2025.org www.project2025.org
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Sure they did in plenty and it would make zero difference- half of Americans want to ‘own the libs’ and make America Great Again. There was no getting through.
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Precisely this. A large proportion of Republican voters are those that wouldn't vote Lib if their lives depended on it, and ended up in a position of voting for policies that will actually screw themselves over as a result. All the information was out there, but they simply ignored it. I suspect more than a few of them would have stayed home if they'd realised what a second Trump term would actually mean for them.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
Precisely this. A large proportion of Republican voters are those that wouldn't vote Lib if their lives depended on it, and ended up in a position of voting for policies that will actually screw themselves over as a result. All the information was out there, but they simply ignored it. I suspect more than a few of them would have stayed home if they'd realised what a second Trump term would actually mean for them.
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They can’t say the signs weren’t there for them, irrespective of the efficacy of the Democrat’s campaign.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Sure they did in plenty and it would make zero difference- half of Americans want to ‘own the libs’ and make America Great Again. There was no getting through.
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It's a bit more nuanced than this, IMO.

People seek out and befriend those with similar beliefs. And those that validate their preconceived conceptions and ideology are very attractive. Moreover, news sites - whether traditional or Internet social media - that cater to one's own views are going to be appealing. Those news sites with contradictory viewpoints are met with dislike and incredulity. There's a term for this - echo chamber.

And if your echo chamber is full of dishonest brokers - willing to lie and defame the other side - well, that's what you're going to end up believing.

"Own the libs" as a primary motivator for Trump voters is exaggerated. Yes, most Republicans have a distrust of Democrats, and some Republicans have this to the extent that it's a moral - or indeed existential - imperative to vote Republican no matter what. But most Republicans are simply voting for the guy who mostly supports their viewpoint, backed up by plenty of reinforcing daily indoctrination courtesy of their echo chamber.

In short - "own the libs" is certainly a motivator and explains why some Republicans vote the way they do.

But "echo chamber" - is the real culprit.
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To wit...

Pete Buttigieg has met with some success appearing of Fox News and even more speaking in public in very Republican forums.

The average Republican isn't stupid, or morally bankrupt, or driven by the sole desire to "own the libs" - the average Republican is just like you, or me, except - likely - brought up in a Republican household, with Republican friends and relatives - and who gets his or her news exclusively from Republican outlets.
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The real villain in the "own the libs" mindset are those on the Right who recognized that demonizing the Left is a winning political strategy.

Newt Gingrich is a poster child for this sort of person as is Rush Limbaugh and Rupert Murdoch.

Each of these - and similar such - are willing to lie, lie, lie, and demonize Democrats - to the extent that "own the libs" is actually a powerful - but I think very much secondary to "echo chamber" - explanation for why Republicans vote the way they do, in spite of fact that their votes may, in fact, be worse for them - or sometimes far worse - than the unthinkable - voting for a Democrat.
 
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