US Presidential Election, Nov 5th 2024

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Nobody is objective with politics.

So if hate him because he tried to borrow money from my company in the early 90s and lied over and over in his financials and wouldn’t provide a tax return . . . is that okay, or . . . ?

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Lots of self-reflection for the Democrats, they need to work out a strategy to compete, not against a political opponent, but against a cult of personality. A man who stands for nothing becomes a mirror, reflecting back what others wish to see.

They need to focus on how to better deliver the message that their policies will be better for working and middle-class Americans, and for the love of God stop fannying around at events with millionaire celebrities. Their endorsement helps galvanise the base, but has little impact on everyday Americans.

The left too often is dragged into culture wars which heavily benefit Republicans. They need to stop trying to win the argument, they need to change the argument in order to win.

Take the trans kids in sport issue, turn it around. Are you more concerned about your daughter losing a swimming race to a trans child, or getting killed in another school shooting?

They also need to go into the Lion's den more, Harris should have done the Rogan podcast, calling him out on his previous comments about Trump. Do more interviews and town halls on Fox, I remember 2016 when Sanders, and then Buttigieg did a Fox town hall and ended with standing ovations, the Fox anchors didn't know how to respond. More of that is needed to win.

Best post on the thread, this.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I won't treat your personal story with the indifference and derision with which you've treated mine in the past.

I am disappointed some asshole did that to your daughter. I deeply dislike people who treat poorly simply because you disagree with them.

On these political chats, I receive a disproportionate amount of the abuse for simply disagreeing.

Thus, I empathize with your daughter and wish her the best. And hope she finds safe ways to deal with these bullies.

i appreciate that thank you and i am sorry if i derided you and your experiences, whatever they were.

 

[buckshot]

How do you guys see England in ten years? We'll either be into American Hitlers 4th term or one of his kids will have assumed power. I'm fairly certain we'll be aiding Putin in whatever aggressions he carries out against people who don't sufficiently show their love for Dear Leader.

 

[Kamaro011]

I’m sorry . . . what exactly was “successful” about his 2020 campaign?

Huh aren't we talking about 2024 election in here?

He is failure in 2020.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Huh aren't we talking about 2024 election in here?

He is failure in 2020.

Did you read what he said?

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I won't treat your personal story with the indifference and derision with which you've treated mine in the past.

I am disappointed some asshole did that to your daughter. I deeply dislike people who treat poorly simply because you disagree with them.

On these political chats, I receive a disproportionate amount of the abuse for simply disagreeing.

Thus, I empathize with your daughter and wish her the best. And hope she finds safe ways to deal with these bullies.


I'm not sure Trump is a good candidate. I had 2 opportunities to vote for him prior and chose not to.

Yes, it is true that I don't like leftist policies. But I generally tend to fight those locally where it most affects me personally.

But, for what it's worth, I preferred his administration to that of the current regime. I liked the reduction in illegal immigration, the good economy, low gas prices etc. Many have argued these weren't his doing, just a lucky idiot to be around when it occurred.

I liked his foreign policy World View. Which for better or worse can be summarized as let's make deals not war.

So even though I didn't vote for him the prior 2 times I actually did prefer the outcomes during his administration.

But as importantly, I specifically have an antipathy towards people who try to stop their political opposition anywhere other than the ballot box.

in 2019ish back when Foggy was more cordial, he'd often point out how terrible of a person Trump was, and i'd point out that if he was as terrible as Foggy believed, surely the voters will note it and vote him out. But, somehow the anti-Trump brigade never seemed to have enough faith in the electorate to vote who they clearly saw as a horrific President.

They'd rather he was impeached on some trumped up charges or jailed for failing to declare he paid Stormy Daniels.

I personally would rather put my faith in the hands of the American electorate.So As I condemned the riots of January 6th and his boorish behavior post the 2020 election, I equally condemn the lawfare and attempts to imprison or bankrupt him. I have seen that before in a Country far far away where Democracy often used to struggle.

But if you really want to know why I voted for him... It's quite simple. I voted for him because they tried to kill him and those who disagreed with him rejoiced.

Not just here... Everywhere. I found the giddiness about his close call with death repulsive. I found the memory-holing of the event despicable.

Id rather stand with him, than with those who felt giddy about him being nearly killed and wished he was, simply because he wanted to be President again.


That's why I voted for him. Openly so.


And if I might add, I'll never regret it.

Well thanks for the honest answer Dax. Without going over old wounds regarding the different interpretations expressed in here about some of the events you mention, I’ll just say…..
I get it, although I wouldn’t necessarily agree with some of your interpretations or perhaps it’s more accurate to say I’d attribute different importance or significance to some and see others’ reactions differently.

I don’t like the guy. I don’t like his values which to my mind centre totally around what’s in it for me and unfortunately I think a lot of people in the States seem to have embraced that. However, I accept that is not necessarily what was top of some voters reasoning when it came to the choice of two.

I find the American system foreign to me. It can be difficult to get my head around at times. I do think this is an isolationist move and you have every right to go that way but I also fear that he won’t do anything but compound your internal divisions in the Union.

Time will tell.

 

[Kamaro011]

Did you read what he said?

Maybe he talking about his succesfull partnership with, doesn't mean it translate to actual election results.

Anyway seeing this snippet of interview.



I can't understand why Trump is able to reach this many minority and articulate people to vote for him.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

An interesting listen if anyone can be arsed. Good impartial analysis of both sides of US politics this week.
Congrats to all on this thread since the election result for actually maintaining a level of debate / discussion btw - particularly @FogBlueInSanFran for who I know this is all very personal. A few others have disappeared who have stalked this thread calling for bans, accusing anyone who doesn't agree with them of being trumpers, nazi enablers etc and generally presenting abuse as an argument. I don't think the discussion has suffered from their sudden absence.

 

[threespires]

Lots of self-reflection for the Democrats, they need to work out a strategy to compete, not against a political opponent, but against a cult of personality. A man who stands for nothing becomes a mirror, reflecting back what others wish to see.

They need to focus on how to better deliver the message that their policies will be better for working and middle-class Americans, and for the love of God stop fannying around at events with millionaire celebrities. Their endorsement helps galvanise the base, but has little impact on everyday Americans.

The left too often is dragged into culture wars which heavily benefit Republicans. They need to stop trying to win the argument, they need to change the argument in order to win.

Take the trans kids in sport issue, turn it around. Are you more concerned about your daughter losing a swimming race to a trans child, or getting killed in another school shooting?

They also need to go into the Lion's den more, Harris should have done the Rogan podcast, calling him out on his previous comments about Trump. Do more interviews and town halls on Fox, I remember 2016 when Sanders, and then Buttigieg did a Fox town hall and ended with standing ovations, the Fox anchors didn't know how to respond. More of that is needed to win.

The only thing I would add to that is they need to work out how to combat the fact that modern comms technologies favour simple illusory truths over reality. It's not enough to change the argument, they need to make sure those arguments are crafted better to the channels people use or find ways of stopping those channels from poisoning the well.