VAR - 2020/21

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Lancet Fluke

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I'm in favor of VAR - it's been a work in progress, but it's getting better and better.
I find it difficult to conclude that it is getting better considering we've probably just had one of the worst weeks in terms of VAR since it started. I see virtually no broad direction of improvement at all, just some periods where it's not quite as terrible and then periods where it feels like the people making the VAR decisions have completely lost their minds. There are two things that particularly bother me about VAR, firstly that the trade off before you even start is huge. You lose an awful lot of the spontaneity of the game that most of us love When you have fans saying they don't really celebrate goals that much anymore and players saying they are wary of fully celebrating goals when they score then you have significant problems IMO. Arguably that wouldn't be an acceptable trade off even if VAR was sorting out most of the injustices of incorrect refereeing decisions. When you throw in that to the untrained eye it seems to have made negligible difference to getting the "subjective" decisions right, in my view it certainly doesn't even come close to being worth the trade off.
My second issue is that I can't shift the feeling that if a referee gets something wrong in real time, it is incredibly infuriating but you can just about grudgingly accept it. For decisions to be just as bad when someone has looked at it repeatedly on replay becomes unacceptable on a completely different level. Atwell was fucking awful on Tuesday, that's one thing but for VAR to not correct even one of those decisions is beyond outrageous. Ultimately it just isn't fit for purpose for the subjective decisions and definitely isn't worth the trade off of what we lose from the game. I think they should only have VAR for factual calls and even then they need to review how they treat offsides because these mm offside calls that have essentially made "level" offside are unacceptable.
 

Stiff Little Wingers

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could you imagine coming out of that game at BHA requiring 3 points to secure the title one day it will happen or a team will get relegated by inept operation of VAR, i cant understand why fans are just taking it on the chin and putting up with this shit
I think it's because we are all bamboozled by the gravy train, the media agendas , basic lack of questioning by people, the media being part of the self serving gravy train and also because we generally put up with shit nowadays seduced by the banality of reality tv and social media.
 

Len Rum

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The name's Rum, Len Rum.
I'm in favor of VAR - it's been a work in progress, but it's getting better and better.
I guess you don't go to the games.
It's sucked the lifeblood and emotion out of the game particularly goal celebrations.
Because it's so accurate it's actually introduced into the game a whole new set of complications that didn't exist before and nobody was really arsed about such as the handball rule and 'infringements' ( sometimes minor) in the build up to a goal and the offside rule which disallows goals ( some really good ones) when a toe or armpit is offside. In the past the officials would call it level and try to give the attacker the advantage.
I'll give you an example. If you can then watch Dzeko's equaliser vs QPR in our most famous game. As the ball comes across from the corner Vinny gives a QPR defender a slight pull - nothing really - the defender appeals when the ball goes in the net. With VAR there's a chance that goal would have been disallowed.
 

Stiff Little Wingers

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833
I find it difficult to conclude that it is getting better considering we've probably just had one of the worst weeks in terms of VAR since it started. I see virtually no broad direction of improvement at all, just some periods where it's not quite as terrible and then periods where it feels like the people making the VAR decisions have completely lost their minds. There are two things that particularly bother me about VAR, firstly that the trade off before you even start is huge. You lose an awful lot of the spontaneity of the game that most of us love When you have fans saying they don't really celebrate goals that much anymore and players saying they are wary of fully celebrating goals when they score then you have significant problems IMO. Arguably that wouldn't be an acceptable trade off even if VAR was sorting out most of the injustices of incorrect refereeing decisions. When you throw in that to the untrained eye it seems to have made negligible difference to getting the "subjective" decisions right, in my view it certainly doesn't even come close to being worth the trade off.
My second issue is that I can't shift the feeling that if a referee gets something wrong in real time, it is incredibly infuriating but you can just about grudgingly accept it. For decisions to be just as bad when someone has looked at it repeatedly on replay becomes unacceptable on a completely different level. Atwell was fucking awful on Tuesday, that's one thing but for VAR to not correct even one of those decisions is beyond outrageous. Ultimately it just isn't fit for purpose for the subjective decisions and definitely isn't worth the trade off of what we lose from the game. I think they should only have VAR for factual calls and even then they need to review how they treat offsides because these mm offside calls that have essentially made "level" offside are unacceptable.
Very good post.
For it to be remotely worth it you need screens everywhere and transparent comms like cricket or rugby.
I cannot get away from the view that it is corrupt and linked into the PL/media business model. The latest VAR corrected table shows West Ham as second. Hold on there, West Ham 2nd, City top, Leicester top4. That means 1 CL place for the Americans and Spurs. No no no that's not what is wanted - meritocracy!!! Rags don't want that. 2 more things.
1. Many people including me think Johnson and the Govt have been wifully negligent resulting in an appalling response to COVID. However, the vaccines have to date been very successful assuming protection is seriously increased and transmission goes down. However, Johnson is riding high in the polls so many people are okay with him. Research shows people think he's trying his best or doesn't have hindsight so they sort of let him off when scrutiny shows he's failed. Exactly the same would happen with the refs if there is an open and transparent system and as long as the VAR gets the decision right quickly then the ref has an excuse, "tried his best, can't see in real time" etc and at least the fans are informed.
2 the other thing is where is the fans revolt. Lancet Fluke makes the point that celebrating or commiserating a goal naturally warts and all hasbeen taken away from us. That's a key part of the joy of football and what PL fans are paying £50 a pop for. Well, where are the rags and others protesting about how this affects EVERYONE in certainly the PL? Funny that isn't it, I suppose VAR giving them goals in every conceivable manner has nothing to do with it does it? Let's think off the top of my head now,
Pen given after the players have left the pitch
Ball clearly going out and coming back in leading to a goal
Pen given after their player jumps in and fouls a Villa player
Goal given for clear handball
Goal given for 3 yards off side
and the reverse for the other team
3. Finally, in cricket there are 4 quick questions that are asked at the VAR review. Why on earth are there not a list of 4 or 5 questions asked for VAR decisions? For example with the Jesus penalty....
Was he onside and in the box? Yes
Did the player foul him? Yes he went in on his ankle
Did the player play the ball? He touched the ball
Was the ball touch significant enough to override the contact? He fucking nearly broke Gabriel's ankle so NO
Therefore must be a foul _ is it a red? Don't think so because didn't threaten the knee. Decision, hell scarf and pen
You could do all that in 20-30 seconds tops
 

ballinio

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Joined
22 Apr 2006
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6,865
A friend of mine hates VAR.

He often complains about:
1) Stupid VAR decisions such as numerous by-the-rulebook handball decisions earlier this year - VAR makes the correct call based on the extant rules - but the rules are obviously so counter to desired outcome that the VAR decision is universally panned - this isn't a fault of VAR, but of the extant rules.

Indeed, in these cases, VAR did exactly what was intended - enforce the rules exactly as written.

The big problem was that the rules - as written - were to no one's liking.

2) VAR took far too long to come to a decision. This is a legitimate complaint against VAR - but it's now far better, far quicker, than it was 6 months ago.

Anyhow, my friend still hates VAR - even though problems 1 and 2 have been mostly corrected.
Biggest pile of shite i’ve ever read on blue moon , we’ll done .
 

Pingu the Penguin

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Joined
29 Sep 2009
Messages
3,584
As I said - it's a work in progress and is getting better.

Your sentiment is much closer to that of my friend's - you hate VAR. Maybe as VAR improves you'll come to favor it - maybe not.
It really isn’t getting better though! We are 2 years in and to get 6 massive decisions wrong on one day that should have been right demonstrates it is utterly flawed

I’m not pro tech definitely, but I see the case for things like goal line tech. The offside is an utter mess and the subjective calls element is likewise
 

Pingu the Penguin

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Joined
29 Sep 2009
Messages
3,584
Very good post.
For it to be remotely worth it you need screens everywhere and transparent comms like cricket or rugby.
I cannot get away from the view that it is corrupt and linked into the PL/media business model. The latest VAR corrected table shows West Ham as second. Hold on there, West Ham 2nd, City top, Leicester top4. That means 1 CL place for the Americans and Spurs. No no no that's not what is wanted - meritocracy!!! Rags don't want that. 2 more things.
1. Many people including me think Johnson and the Govt have been wifully negligent resulting in an appalling response to COVID. However, the vaccines have to date been very successful assuming protection is seriously increased and transmission goes down. However, Johnson is riding high in the polls so many people are okay with him. Research shows people think he's trying his best or doesn't have hindsight so they sort of let him off when scrutiny shows he's failed. Exactly the same would happen with the refs if there is an open and transparent system and as long as the VAR gets the decision right quickly then the ref has an excuse, "tried his best, can't see in real time" etc and at least the fans are informed.
2 the other thing is where is the fans revolt. Lancet Fluke makes the point that celebrating or commiserating a goal naturally warts and all hasbeen taken away from us. That's a key part of the joy of football and what PL fans are paying £50 a pop for. Well, where are the rags and others protesting about how this affects EVERYONE in certainly the PL? Funny that isn't it, I suppose VAR giving them goals in every conceivable manner has nothing to do with it does it? Let's think off the top of my head now,
Pen given after the players have left the pitch
Ball clearly going out and coming back in leading to a goal
Pen given after their player jumps in and fouls a Villa player
Goal given for clear handball
Goal given for 3 yards off side
and the reverse for the other team
3. Finally, in cricket there are 4 quick questions that are asked at the VAR review. Why on earth are there not a list of 4 or 5 questions asked for VAR decisions? For example with the Jesus penalty....
Was he onside and in the box? Yes
Did the player foul him? Yes he went in on his ankle
Did the player play the ball? He touched the ball
Was the ball touch significant enough to override the contact? He fucking nearly broke Gabriel's ankle so NO
Therefore must be a foul _ is it a red? Don't think so because didn't threaten the knee. Decision, hell scarf and pen
You could do all that in 20-30 seconds tops
Yeah a protocol/checklists of what to look for in common scenarios, with us hearing the ref/VAR team run through it, would improve things immeasurably
 

Kippax77

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Joined
25 Jun 2020
Messages
2,320
Team supported
Manchester City
I find it difficult to conclude that it is getting better considering we've probably just had one of the worst weeks in terms of VAR since it started. I see virtually no broad direction of improvement at all, just some periods where it's not quite as terrible and then periods where it feels like the people making the VAR decisions have completely lost their minds. There are two things that particularly bother me about VAR, firstly that the trade off before you even start is huge. You lose an awful lot of the spontaneity of the game that most of us love When you have fans saying they don't really celebrate goals that much anymore and players saying they are wary of fully celebrating goals when they score then you have significant problems IMO. Arguably that wouldn't be an acceptable trade off even if VAR was sorting out most of the injustices of incorrect refereeing decisions. When you throw in that to the untrained eye it seems to have made negligible difference to getting the "subjective" decisions right, in my view it certainly doesn't even come close to being worth the trade off.
My second issue is that I can't shift the feeling that if a referee gets something wrong in real time, it is incredibly infuriating but you can just about grudgingly accept it. For decisions to be just as bad when someone has looked at it repeatedly on replay becomes unacceptable on a completely different level. Atwell was fucking awful on Tuesday, that's one thing but for VAR to not correct even one of those decisions is beyond outrageous. Ultimately it just isn't fit for purpose for the subjective decisions and definitely isn't worth the trade off of what we lose from the game. I think they should only have VAR for factual calls and even then they need to review how they treat offsides because these mm offside calls that have essentially made "level" offside are unacceptable.
Just get someone who as Actually played football in their lifetime on the pitch officiating and the same for the hidden ref on Var
 
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