Var debate 2019/20

[ScottSinclair]

My own opinion is that it is not deliberately against City, but it is deliberately favouring certain teams. I think Liverpool and to a lesser extent Spurs are the main beneficiaries this season. Everyone else suffers at some point. Both these clubs are considered big clubs, and neither has won the PL.

This is in keeping with the narrative that someone at the PL said that they wanted a new winner of the PL every few years. Also that a strong Manchester United is good for the brand. It tells me that the footballing authorities are prepared to favour certain teams because it will ultimately increase their revenues. And when businesses have the opportunity to manipulate the rules in order to increase their revenues, they have been known to succumb to this temptation.

We have seen this corruption at UEFA, FIFA, in Italian football, other leagues, and plenty of other sports. I think there is a real possibility that we are witnessing it here this season. (For what it's worth, last season also, but City were just too good for it to deliver the desired outcome).

Implementing their objectives doesn't even have to be by direct instruction. It can be achieved by subtle means. For example by appointing a referee with favourable tendencies towards a desired club could skew the outcome of certain games. Let's take for instance Michael Oliver, who is one of our top referees. He has refereed a number of City games including City v Spurs, where we lost two points. Also Liverpool v City, where a number of marginal decisions went against City. He has also officiated some Liverpool games, where they benefited from a number of close decisions. Or consider Anthony Taylor, who comes from a family of United fans, even though he claims to be an Altrincham fan. You would not be surprised to see a bias in favour of United from Taylor, not necessarily because of any unprofessionalism on his part, but maybe subliminally, he tends to make decisions that would satisfy his relatives. Oliver has relatives that are Liverpool fans incidentally.

Another good post.

I will agree on the fact that as long as there is humans behind the decisions, there will always be risks of impartiality blurring the lines of right and wrong. And as you say, it might be subliminally. I, as you might have understood already lol, thinks it's humans being flawed by nature rather than a planned conspiracy.

I do believe either way, VAR is a step in the right direction. As you say the law has been creatively exploited to suit their agenda(imo it's to make it easier for them to make a decision). Atleast with VAR it forces them to be consistent with it. It also helps highlight the bad ways it's used.
There has never been more focus on refereeing than after VAR got introduced. I think this will in time make VAR a very good tool, but if they continue to make stupid decisions, we the fans, the media, social media everyone needs to continue to put pressure on for them to make it as good and fair as possible.

Labelling it as a tool for blatant corruption, is imo a bit misguided.

 

[BlueHammer85]

I've read your posts and like I said, you've nailed your colours as far as I'm concerned..

I wouldn't have said it if I didn't think it.

You rambled on about what if Sergio's goal had been flagged for a foul or offside, it wasn't though was it so don't understand where you're going with 'if my auntie had balls' analagy..

You said VAR is now insuring they get all the marginal decisions correct the majority of the time regarding Liverpool..

Did you see our recent game there?

Do you think VAR got all the marginal decisions correct in that game concerning Liverpool?

You still stand by your comments?

Like I said, you've backed yourself into a corner and would embarrass yourself to change your opinion now so have got to press on peddling how wonderful VAR is and how Liverpool are treated like every other team in the Premier League..!

then you’ve clearly not read history of my posts on this subject or just purposely ignoring how many times I’ve stated my dislike for some parts of VAR. I’ve absolutely got nothing to be ‘embarrassed’ about, I don’t live in a world of thinking everything’s a conspiracy- I just don’t want players getting away with cheating and diving and clear offside goals being allowed to stand. That is all. That’s all I want. If we can have technological help towards that then I’m all for it. VAR is shit at times but it’s a start. Ffs how can that be a unreasonable position to take ?

I think the Aguero analogy is a fair one - if officials are corrupt, on that day they could have flagged it offside and denied you the title - would you seriously not had wished for some technological proof that could be given to the ref to prove it was miles onside ? I know it’s a made up example but without going mad and being abusive try and give a rational answer as this is a VAR debate.

We can debate each individual Liverpool decision if you like and I do admit they’ve had the rub of the green on many occasions- but sometimes i genuinely think the margins are so tight I can see why it could be one way or the other - also their seems to be a lot of anger when Liverpool have a decision in their favour which turns out to be correct when it was correct ! For example it looked like Lallana handballed in the lead up to the goal the other day - yet VAR clearly shows it wasn’t a handball- then there is uproar about how VAR is ‘once again’ favouring Liverpool - fair enough on marginal decisions that sway their way - but on clear black and white decisions that are correct people still go mad.

By way, if you’re really interested you can go back on my previous posts and see how much I despise Liverpool and was desperate for City to win the title.

When it comes to VAR I just try to be a bit rational, don’t jump on the corruption bandwagon and prey we can find a better solution than before of officials being left to blind guessing with no help.

I think I answer fairly, honestly and never abuse anyone on this topic but guess if you hate VAR and are convinced it’s all to do with corruption then anything I say is met with scorn. So that’s me done on this topic for a while. Happy new year bud.

 

[the talisman]

I've read your posts and like I said, you've nailed your colours as far as I'm concerned..

I wouldn't have said it if I didn't think it.

You rambled on about what if Sergio's goal had been flagged for a foul or offside, it wasn't though was it so don't understand where you're going with 'if my auntie had balls' analagy..

You said VAR is now insuring they get all the marginal decisions correct the majority of the time regarding Liverpool..

Did you see our recent game there?

Do you think VAR got all the marginal decisions correct in that game concerning Liverpool?

You still stand by your comments?

Like I said, you've backed yourself into a corner and would embarrass yourself to change your opinion now so have got to press on peddling how wonderful VAR is and how Liverpool are treated like every other team in the Premier League..!

Spot on. Not even a liverpool fan could justify what happened at anfield. As clear a pen as you will ever see, not given.
To compound it they let the handball set up the 1st goal, changed the game completely.
I see they were at it again vs wolves, a handball goal given to Liverpool and a Wolves goal disallowed by an invisible offside.

 

[the talisman]

then you’ve clearly not read history of my posts on this subject or just purposely ignoring how many times I’ve stated my dislike for some parts of VAR. I’ve absolutely got nothing to be ‘embarrassed’ about, I don’t live in a world of thinking everything’s a conspiracy- I just don’t want players getting away with cheating and diving and clear offside goals being allowed to stand. That is all. That’s all I want. If we can have technological help towards that then I’m all for it. VAR is shit at times but it’s a start. Ffs how can that be a unreasonable position to take ?

I think the Aguero analogy is a fair one - if officials are corrupt, on that day they could have flagged it offside and denied you the title - would you seriously not had wished for some technological proof that could be given to the ref to prove it was miles onside ? I know it’s a made up example but without going mad and being abusive try and give a rational answer as this is a VAR debate.

We can debate each individual Liverpool decision if you like and I do admit they’ve had the rub of the green on many occasions- but sometimes i genuinely think the margins are so tight I can see why it could be one way or the other - also their seems to be a lot of anger when Liverpool have a decision in their favour which turns out to be correct when it was correct ! For example it looked like Lallana handballed in the lead up to the goal the other day - yet VAR clearly shows it wasn’t a handball- then there is uproar about how VAR is ‘once again’ favouring Liverpool - fair enough on marginal decisions that sway their way - but on clear black and white decisions that are correct people still go mad.

By way, if you’re really interested you can go back on my previous posts and see how much I despise Liverpool and was desperate for City to win the title.

When it comes to VAR I just try to be a bit rational, don’t jump on the corruption bandwagon and prey we can find a better solution than before of officials being left to blind guessing with no help.

I think I answer fairly, honestly and never abuse anyone on this topic but guess if you hate VAR and are convinced it’s all to do with corruption then anything I say is met with scorn. So that’s me done on this topic for a while. Happy new year bud.

Going on about the Aguero moment is not the best argument. You probably don’t remember it as well as us ;-)
He was miles onside, there were about half a dozen QPR players around the 6 yard box and Sergio was on the edge of the penalty area.

 

[ScottSinclair]

Going on about the Aguero moment is not the best argument. You probably don’t remember it as well as us ;-)
He was miles onside, there were about half a dozen QPR players around the 6 yard box and Sergio was on the edge of the penalty area.

His point is that a corrupt official could easily have prevented us from winning if he wanted.

 

[greasedupdeafguy]

The negatives were always gonna outweigh the positives for me. I reckon the offside rule will be adapted to VAR but the fact remains that fans will never be able to truly celebrate due the thought of it being cancelled out, will forever hurt the game imo.

Also VAR was never really gonna make the game 'fair'. On Sunday night I'm pretty sure Sheffield United got a corner from an attack which was clearly offside. If they scored from that corner would it have been ruled out? Nope.

 

[mat]

 

[the talisman]

His point is that a corrupt official could easily have prevented us from winning if he wanted.

I know. My point was it would have been so ridiculous that it would have been a bigger story than us winning the league in the 94th minute.
So it wouldn’t have been “easy” at all, it would probably have ended careers.

 

[Busser]

Where did the Liverpool thread disappear?

Here's my reponse to a Liverpool fan pretending the be a City fan.

"I don't think you are a City fan, but I shall respond. Your answers are unconvincing.

You argue that "they were afftected by VAR as much as us". How? By listing several decisions against Liverpool most of which correct. Problem is there have been numerous favourable decisons for Liverpool and not one for City before last night. There is a clear discrepance between the favourable decisions for both clubs and your response doesn't explain it away at all.

You don't explain the Christmas fixture schedule, you don't make sense of itl. Why? Because you can't. It's in Liverpool's favour, no two ways about it. Instead you are trying to deflect the point by arguing that City had easier fixtures at the start of the season and easier fixtures in the cups. But this argument isn't convincing either. First, the cup draws and the fixture schedule in the league are supposed to be completely independent, it's not like PL has compensated City for the Christmas schedule with favourable draws in the league cup and the CL. It's not like the PL has decided City to have easier fixtures at the start and to compensate Liverpool with easier fixture schedule at Christmas. It doesn't work like that at all. Second, to have a number of consecutive league games against top 6 teams when the CL groups are decided (November and December) is not obviously beneficial. Third, last season City lost 3 games against average/poor teams and only one game against a top 6 team. The notion of easy and difficult fixtures does not quite apply when it comes to City.

Basically, you have no anaswer to why the PL has made it easy for Liverpool around Christmas and you have no response why City haven't had favourable decisions during the first half of the season. There is a clear tendency of helping Liverpool win their 1st PL title and not let City win several league titles in a row and damage the brand. I suppose next season they will help Man U or Chelsea or whoever seems capable of challenging for the title."

Hey man, I think you are talking about my response. Ok let's do this.

You say there a a few favourable decisions againts liverpool, which one? State your data facts like I did, I cant even argue your point because you didnt state anything.

How is FA making it easier for Liverpool when they had to travel to Dubai and play againts Aston villa? No help from anyone there.

The fact I'm talking about schedule, group stages is because if how much it favoured us and how we didnt take advantage of.

Like my post, I agree, liverpool had their break for Christmas, as opposed to us, who had an easier opponents in the first half of season and we didnt travel to dubai play a cup semi final and final and come back to play a team who is 2nd on the table. All within 5 days. But wait, they did get another day rest, the only advantage I'm seeing so far.

Remember last season, they only lost one game and was only 1 point different from us. They won CL. Without VAR. How can we conclude that this season is helped by VAR?

Also, which decision went againts us? We need to stop this conspiracy theories man and focus on us. We lost 5 games, how many because of liverpool? 1. We are clutching at straws he man. Just gasping at every opportunity to lay blame at everyone else but us.

 

[Barcon]

Hey man, I think you are talking about my response. Ok let's do this.

You say there a a few favourable decisions againts liverpool, which one? State your data facts like I did, I cant even argue your point because you didnt state anything.

How is FA making it easier for Liverpool when they had to travel to Dubai and play againts Aston villa? No help from anyone there.

The fact I'm talking about schedule, group stages is because if how much it favoured us and how we didnt take advantage of.

Like my post, I agree, liverpool had their break for Christmas, as opposed to us, who had an easier opponents in the first half of season and we didnt travel to dubai play a cup semi final and final and come back to play a team who is 2nd on the table. All within 5 days. But wait, they did get another day rest, the only advantage I'm seeing so far.

Remember last season, they only lost one game and was only 1 point different from us. They won CL. Without VAR. How can we conclude that this season is helped by VAR?

Also, which decision went againts us? We need to stop this conspiracy theories man and focus on us. We lost 5 games, how many because of liverpool? 1. We are clutching at straws he man. Just gasping at every opportunity to lay blame at everyone else but us.

Were you posting on here under the name TikiTaka last week?