Var debate 2019/20

[Blue Mist]

exactly

utd fans will be complaining about it this weekend, as will spurs fans yet its only us its against....laughable!

Yet again you are attacking City fans, the Rags have had one contentious decision and I have previously explained why that might not have been given but we have had 4 in 3 matches given against us, all of which pundits are saying are total joke decisions that is why Blues think we are being singled out. Pep is now commenting on it so it isn't just us.

 

[Ban-jani]

When even Talksport say our non-penalty was a disgrace yesterday, you know it’s bad.

 

[SWP's back]

I said last season that the introduction of the PL version of VAR was going to be a cheats charter. Unfortunately the cheats are the refs conning the public.

Yeah but as I’ve said, 32 reviews not turned over on penalties. It’s a fucking joke, but it’s the same joke for every team. We are back to relying on the incompetence of refs watching in real time.

 

[Neville Kneville]

one of the real problems (amongst a number of them) seems to be the differing interpritations of "clear and obvious" and when/how that is used.

For all fans the two none penalty incidents were "clear and obvious" penalties and for the ref to not give them is a "clear and obvious" mistake.

So how/when does the VAR officials deem that the ref has made a "clear and obvious" mistake as its my understanding it is only then that they will intervene and say to a ref he needs to change his decision.

Can clear and obvious ever be used in extremely marginal offside calls? For me no, as they are not clear and obvious to the naked eye. - contradictory to this however it is a black and white call (taking into account the camera speeds against the speeds the players are moving etc) so its certainly more clear than a foul with is a subjective call.

Maybe they need to do a number of things to help:

1. Re write the handball rule (or at least part of it - its an abomination as it stands.

2. Take out the clear and obvious statement - this goes hand in hand with the most crucial point in that VAR should be seen by ALL (esp ref's and its implementors) as something that is there to HELP not criticise a ref's performance - anyone who has ref'd any level of game from kids Sunday league right the way to the top should know what an extremely hard job it is. To this, VAR officials need to be stronger and not afraid to say to a ref - "having looked at the video evidence a number of times you have got to change your decision there." - this would especially apply to the penalty decisions which are possibly the hardest to judge

3. Re -write the offside rule - go back to the idea that there must be daylight between attacker and defender for it to be offside - Im no mathematician but this would give at least some margin of error in terms of movement of the player and camera speed. It wold also take out (mostly) the arguments about which part of the body is level/not level -it wold give the advantage to the attackers but surely thats what the whole world of football want to see anyway?

In no way is this 100% proof and fouls/penalties will always be subjective - i think its impossible for them not to be. Was Salah's a penalty - yes it was soft but then Luiz should not have hold of his shirt. Does it impede him? I know someone grabbing my short aint stopping me running in the direction I want to go -but Luiz shouldnt be doing it

Does a slight touch knock a player over running at speed of a sterling, sane, salah, martial etc - from experience it certainly does...it doesnt take much at the pace those guys are running to knock them over due to momentum - slow motion replays make it look theatrical (and sometimes it is lets not kid ourselves - players do it at times). There wasnt a single pundit who said the rodri one wasnt a penalty however -you have to (as a ref) look at that and go - "ok i made a mistake - and here is my final point - the people in charge need to come out and say this as they are doing their own (and the VAR systems) credibility huge damage

The offside one is easy, as several of us have said; just draw a 3rd line. The 3rd line being the maximum 'allowance' line for error. Still there will be some who are half a millimetre over that line & unlucky, but crucially NOBODY who.gets a goal disallowed will be 'onside' between frames etc. All goals disallowed will be correct.

Eveyone can live with that & anything well inside that line can be seen in one second, so fewer delays.

 

[the talisman]

I watch a program called ESPNFC over here (it comes from the States) and they have that twat Peter Walton on fairly regularly.
He is probably the stupidest man on TV. Absolutely thick as pigshit. When VAR first became a thing he couldn’t even say VAR properly. He always sticks up for the on field ref even when a blind man in row z can see they are wrong.

The other ex-refs who go on tv are not much better, and that may be the problem here, they are so used to justifying each other’s mistakes they are incapable of overruling an error.

Or, they’re just a bunch of cheats......;-)

 

[cibaman]

It happens in rugby league.

The refs send a decision up to the Video Ref, either saying “I’ve got a try” or “I’ve got no try”.

Then the VR will prove or disprove the ref’s decision. There has to be enough evidence to overturn the ref’s decision but it if there’s enough evidence he will do it.

For some reason in rugby league, it’s accepted that the refs, who only see something once from one angle at one speed, can make a mistake. PiGMOL seem scared to death of that. I have no idea why.

Nobody is going to think any differently of the ref if VAR disproves their decision. It’s the limitations of a human that seeing something live once cannot always confirm a decision, so the VAR needs to disprove them if they have the evidence.

That’s exactly why it’s there.

To be fair rugby league has tweaked the video ref system several times before settling on the current system

 

[SWP's back]

Roll the whole thing back and give the ref a monitor for when they need it . Simple, and it keeps the subjective decisions with the guy on the field.... Not some concoction of people behind the scenes.

The refs have the monitors already in place. They’ve not not used them once in 30 matches.

 

[squirtyflower]

Who's paying them?

The bookies and their agents who are fixing the results of games to scam money out of the punters.
It’s aimed at getting a desired result and if you know it before the game kicks off you make guaranteed money.

 

[SWP's back]

Yet again you are attacking City fans, the Rags have had one contentious decision and I have previously explained why that might not have been given but we have had 4 in 3 matches given against us, all of which pundits are saying are total joke decisions that is why Blues think we are being singled out. Pep is now commenting on it so it isn't just us.

We’ve had four go against us and 2 go for us.

It’s still the shitty end of the stick but let’s be accurate.

 

[SWP's back]

The offside one is easy, as several of us have said; just draw a 3rd line. The 3rd line being the maximum 'allowance' line for error. Still there will be some who are half a millimetre over that line & unlucky, but crucially NOBODY who.gets a goal disallowed will be 'onside' between frames etc. All goals disallowed will be correct.

Eveyone can live with that & anything well inside that line can be seen in one second, so fewer delays.

That’s sensible.